obesity and genetics?

[dreamrawalwz]

I've never been obese so I don't have a personal view on this so I'm curious. With knowing all the lack of nutrition classes doctors do and how biased many big research studies from major coorporations are - lying to the public....do you think obesity is a genetic thing?

To me I think it's an excuse to those that are not eating propperly. I understnd the cooked food and junk food addictions and emotional eating...wouldn't you connect those with obesity instead of genetics? I know if i was in tht situation and believed all the ads, ect. I would say "well, i'm overweight anyway, what's the point of trying to stop? It's in my genes so I'll be big no matter what I do." I also can see how genetics with food allergies would play a part in it or lactose intolerance, slow metabolism (Which i think is affected by diet), but i wouldn't say it's the cause. You also much look at activity level...that's a huge factor. Oh, I can also see how if your parent(s) are obese due to lack of nutrition information and poor choices you as a child will most likely be obese...are they looking at that as genetic? That's just following their parent(s) and depend on what the parent(s) feed their children...

I really hope this doesn't offend anyone, that is definitly NOT my intention. I'm just curious as to what you think after going raw (or in the process) and learning how the government is lying to us.

[RawChicky]

I think it does have something to do with genetics because everybody's body reacts differently to the same foods. Some people can eat french fries and pizza all day and never gain a pound while a different person eating the same amount would be morbidly obese. We have even seen on this website that some people gain weight on cetain raw foods while others lose weight on the same foods. This indicates to me that something in our bodies reacts differently to different foods. I think genetics has something to do with that. If everybody in the whole world ate the exact same thing in the exact same amounts every day, I think we would still have a plethora of different body types.

[Coriander74]

Hey girl

I don't know about all of that but I will tell you this part of my story...

About two years ago I was able to find my biological mother and her side of the family. Each member of the family I was progressively more and more shocked, worried and concerned. They're all overweight except for one of my cousins, and my uncle, who has been sick for a long time.

And I mean really overweight. My aunt has asthma and really bad legs because of it, and might be diabetic. My other uncle has his own problems. It's so frustrating to me, because I care so much about these people.

Even 40 pounds overweight I was skinny in comparison.

I do know now though that there is a history of high blood pressure, diabetes, and now colon cancer in my family. I am wondering how much of this is due to the obesity.

[dreamrawalwz]

Hey girl

I don't know about all of that but I will tell you this part of my story...

About two years ago I was able to find my biological mother and her side of the family. Each member of the family I was progressively more and more shocked, worried and concerned. They're all overweight except for one of my cousins, and my uncle, who has been sick for a long time.

And I mean really overweight. My aunt has asthma and really bad legs because of it, and might be diabetic. My other uncle has his own problems. It's so frustrating to me, because I care so much about these people.

Even 40 pounds overweight I was skinny in comparison.

I do know now though that there is a history of high blood pressure, diabetes, and now colon cancer in my family. I am wondering how much of this is due to the obesity.

But aren't high bp, diabetese, and cancer predominently caused by diet?

[dreamrawalwz]

I think it does have something to do with genetics because everybody's body reacts differently to the same foods. Some people can eat french fries and pizza all day and never gain a pound while a different person eating the same amount would be morbidly obese. We have even seen on this website that some people gain weight on cetain raw foods while others lose weight on the same foods. This indicates to me that something in our bodies reacts differently to different foods. I think genetics has something to do with that. If everybody in the whole world ate the exact same thing in the exact same amounts every day, I think we would still have a plethora of different body types.

I guess that's true. It (what i posted) made sense in my head and I don't think I'm getting it out correctly so others can understand...

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Dreamraw,

No offense taken :D I think it's a good question.

I can only give my view/take on it. I beleive it can be genetic but it can also be corrected. Obesity is a symptom/disease, as is diabetes, thyroid disease, heart disease, cancer.

When we don't eat properly we are more apt to get what the family has (genetics). So usually (not always) if there is a high percentage of cancer in a family you are more apt to have it. If there is a high percentage of obesity in your family, you are apt to have it. etc.

But again, this can all be reversed and we've seen it on this board where people have over come MS, cancer. thyroid disease, obesity, etc.

I also like what Raw Chicky wrote. 2 people can eat the exact same foods and quanity and not have the same result. I don't know if this is true once our bodies are totally detoxed and we're 100% Raw, but even then I've read where some long time raw foodist eat LOTS of food and others that hardly eat any, yet both groups appear to be healthy and look good.

Just my humble opinion :D

[dreamrawalwz]

"When we don't eat properly we are more apt to get what the family has (genetics). So usually (not always) if there is a high percentage of cancer in a family you are more apt to have it. If there is a high percentage of obesity in your family, you are apt to have it. etc."

That's more what I was getting at. You're more susceptible (sp?) to them from your genes, but IF you have a poor diet...the poor diet starts the chain reaction, right?

[Coriander74]

But aren't high bp, diabetese, and cancer predominently caused by diet?

To be perfectly honest, I don't know. I don't know enough about my particular family to have a clue.

It could be, sure. I know that diet CAN cause diabetes and hbp.

Very interesting to think about.

[alex]

We have genetic predispositions, but in the majority of cases these can be overcome by lifestyle.

In The pH Miracle, Dr Young attributes obesity to excess acid in the body. Fat is actually protecting the body from the harmful effects of the acid. Get rid of the acid by consuming alkaline ash producing foods and the body let's go of the fat.

In The Rosedale Diet, Dr Rosedale attributes obesity to insulin and leptin resistance.

What both of these have in common is a lifestyle which includes a diet high in fat and low in carbs and high in vegetables.

I believe that both are correct. We do not need carbs - there are no essential carbs, whereas there are two essential fatty acids and 8 (or 9) essential amino acids.

Both of the above lifestyle emphasize that it is immeasurably better for the body to use fat as an energy source rather than sugar. Excess protein is converted to sugar in the body. The trick is to consume good fats rather than bad fats. An excellent book on this is: Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill by Udo Erasmus.

I also don't think that everything is known yet and ultimately one must find what works for them.


alex

[Lay-Lay]

I do believe genetics play a large role in health and obesity issues, but food and exercise do to. I have a friend who is as skinny as can be. She eats all she wants, whenever she wants, whatever she wants. Most of her family are slim. Me on the otherhand I have to work at it. I come from a very morbid obese family. Most of the people in my family range from 250-500 pounds.

That being said I think through a lifestyle such as the raw food lifestyle you can change you genetic makeup and you don't have to pass that on to your children.

[dreamrawalwz]

Good point iloverawfoods and thanks for sharing. As I said, this is one thing I havn't personally experienced so I wouldn't know...

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Dreamraw,

"That's more what I was getting at. You're more susceptible (sp?) to them from your genes, but IF you have a poor diet...the poor diet starts the chain reaction, right?"

That's what I believe :) I think just about everone on this thread thinks pretty much the same thing. And we all know changing what we eat, getting exercise, sunshine, pure water, fresh air, etc. all plays a part in stopping the "bad" genes that we will pass on to our young ones. It's like "The Pottinger Cat Experiment" http://www.healthfree.com/nutritional_power_robbins.html#1
(scroll down toward the bottom of the page)

[juliebove]

I am really tired of hearing about how the poor food choices and lack of exercise are what make you fat. If only it were that simple! There are fat people on both sides of my family. Not all necessarily obese, but some are, and certainly most would fall into the "fat" category.

I've had weight problems for most of my life. When I was younger, I was severely underweight to the point where people always thought I had anorexia. It was maddening because I'd eat and eat and no matter what I did I could not put on weight.

Things changed somewhere around my 30's. This is also I think where the Syndrome X thing started. My BP went high. Later I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and a thyroid problem. These things run on both sides of my family as well.

I had enjoyed a "normal" weight for a few years and now suddenly I was overweight without having made any changes in what I ate or the amount of exercise I did. I think I've always eaten a pretty healthy diet compared to some people. Now I had to exercise like a fiend and cut back on the food to the point of near starvation to be able to lose any weight.

What really annoyed me was that I felt surrounded by people who were thin or normal weight who ate anything and everything they wanted to and never gained an ounce. They didn't exercise. They seemed to be happy and healthy. Why was I having to work so hard and still found myself being overweight?

Then a very obese coworker lost all her excess weight in a short amount of time. Her story? She seemed to eat normally throughout the day. But on the way home from work, she stopped and bought one of those big "drums" of ice cream. The kind they serve the ice cream out of at the ice cream shops. After dinner, she sat in front of the TV and ate the ice cream as the night went on. She'd stop only when it began to melt. Then she'd put it back in the freezer and let it get hard again. She ate one entire
drum" of ice cream every nightr. Now this doesn't strike me as normal behavior but she seemed not to notice there was anything wrong with it until the Dr. pointed it out to her.

So normal in fact that whenever she saw an overweight person or heard a person commenting on wanting to lose weight, she'd say brightly, "Well all you have to do is stop eating ice cream in the evening!" When someone like me told her that we didn't eat ice cream (never did, don't like it), she'd look baffled. "Well, why are you overweight then?", she'd ask.

If only it were that simple for the rest of us. But it really isn't. Yes, I do think genetics plays a part in it. I also think many of us have underlying medical problems that are part of the cause. Of course I do know a few people who eat a LOT of food or a lot of junk food and are fat. I've seen people with eating disorders who were fat.

My husband is one who does not like healthy food and no matter what anyone says to him, he still thinks he can eat whatever he wants whenever he wants and can't understand why he is overweight. He thinks if he gains some weight he can just run it off. Age is also a factor. Our metabolism slows as we age. We do tend to put on weight after the age of 30 unless we make some changes in our eating and exercise. I'm almost 50 now and have to exercise a lot longer and harder than I did before to see results.

My husband was brought up in an Italain/American family that wasn't wealthy. Most of their meals were made at home. His dad had a huge garden. They ate a very healthy diet and there wasn't a lot of money for junk food and stuff. He does tell me stories about his one grandpa though who appaently had a drinking problem. The grandpa used to take him out on the weekends to some bar that had a candy counter in the front of it. He would plopmy husband down on a barstool by the candy counter and let him (my husband) have whatever he wanted while he himself got drunk. My husband said he would eat candy until he got sick and then brought home a big bag of additional candy. Of course I don't know how often this happened. As adults we sometimes tend not to remember events from childhood as they really were and something that may have happened two or three times seems to us like something we did every week. Could be that by stuffing himself full of junk he is trying to bring back memories of his grandpa. I don't know.

My daughter is only 8 yet for almost all of her life I've had people commenting on her weight. I feel just as frustrated about this as I do my own weight. She was only one ounce lighter than normal at birth. But she rapidly lost weight. Was born with jaundice and what we now know are food allergies. I was not producing enough milk for her (I think because of the thyroid problem) so I had to supplement with formula. She threw up all the time and could not gain. I started her on solid food as soon as I could and only then did she start to gain. And gain and gain to where she was quickly a bit overweight. The Dr. put her on a diet at age 2.

I watched every bite she ate. She didn't eat junk food. Rarely ate fast food and when she did I always insisted that she eat salad. I saw what the other kids ate. She didn't eat like them. The other kids were skinny and scrawny. She was much larger than them not only in weight but in height. At age 8 now she is as tall as the average 10 year old. She seems to eat less food than the other kids eat and yet she is still overweight. She takes 4 dance classes during the season and is now going nuts because there are no classes this month. She is still dancing in the house. Is doing it this very minute instead of picking up her toys. Heh!

I've been a perpetual dieter for about the past 17 years and I'm still overweight. It's very frustrating. I even mentioned this to my Endo. telling him what sort of foods I ate in a typical day. Handful of pumpkin seeds for breakfast, no lunch, salad for dinner. Why was I still overweight? He merely shook his head and said I was unfortunately one of those people who just could never eat much food and would always be fat. Sad, but it does seem true.

[dreamrawalwz]

juliebove - i hope i didn't strike a nerve with my questions. If I did I appologize. Do you think the diet could have switched the thyroid and stuff to turn in your 30's as if your body said "enough is enough." I know you said you dind't have a bad diet, but even cooked can cause some drastic health things from being so acidic. As a "perpetual dieter" were you doing fad diets, restricting, ect? Those tht have dieted their whole lives seem to do everything but raw and a lifestyle chnge (not saying you, just from what I've observed). Were you consuming milk when your daughter was breastfeeding or other allergenic foods that could be passed to her to cause her to throw up? Is she on a raw diet now? I'm not doubting that it could be genetics, but mybe it could be combated?

With the amount of food you said it sounds like your body could be in starvation mode and WILL gain or at least not lose weight if it's like that. Ok I'll shut up now, I'm just asking some questions nd I hope I don't come off as judgemental at all.

[Lay-Lay]

Dream you are not coming off judgemental at all.

Julibove: My family members do not eat this way either. They are pretty healthy eaters. My mom for example raised me eating lots of fruits and vegetables and most were raw. We ate lean meats. My mom doesn't like meat so she ate very little if any. We didn't eat white bread. We never had sugar in our house. Icecream was a rare treat. So why did my mother almost weigh 400 pounds? I believe genetics played a large part in that. She finally had a gastric bypass. She dropped from the almost 400 pounds to 220 pounds. She has been at that weight for 7 years. Her doctor wanted her to be 190 pounds, but doesn't matter what she does she just can't go there. One whole year she was 100% raw, but there was no movement in weight for her. I am unsure why. Maybe it was caused from all that yo-yo dieting over the years or maybe it is just plain genetics. She eats like a bird. Her doctor saids shes a liar. She must be eating cakes and candies, etc... I said find a new doctor, LOL.

[juliebove]

"When we don't eat properly we are more apt to get what the family has (genetics). So usually (not always) if there is a high percentage of cancer in a family you are more apt to have it. If there is a high percentage of obesity in your family, you are apt to have it. etc."

That's more what I was getting at. You're more susceptible (sp?) to them from your genes, but IF you have a poor diet...the poor diet starts the chain reaction, right?

That doesn't explain all the many thin people who eat a poor diet. And there are tons of them out there!

[juliebove]

Dream you are not coming off judgemental at all.

Julibove: My family members do not eat this way either. They are pretty healthy eaters. My mom for example raised me eating lots of fruits and vegetables and most were raw. We ate lean meats. My mom doesn't like meat so she ate very little if any. We didn't eat white bread. We never had sugar in our house. Icecream was a rare treat. So why did my mother almost weigh 400 pounds? I believe genetics played a large part in that. She finally had a gastric bypass. She dropped from the almost 400 pounds to 220 pounds. She has been at that weight for 7 years. Her doctor wanted her to be 190 pounds, but doesn't matter what she does she just can't go there. One whole year she was 100% raw, but there was no movement in weight for her. I am unsure why. Maybe it was caused from all that yo-yo dieting over the years or maybe it is just plain genetics. She eats like a bird. Her doctor saids shes a liar. She must be eating cakes and candies, etc... I said find a new doctor, LOL.

When I was first diagnosed with diabetes, my husband used to go into the Dr. with me. I was so sick at that point I could not drive and could barely walk. I was upset because my blood sugar suddenly went high and I could not get it down no matter what. Following my diagnosis I'd managed to lose 30 pounds rather quickly but then put 15 of those pounds back on rapidly, in a period of about 2 weeks. Turns out that was fluid retention. The veins in my legs are bad and blood was leaking out into my feet and legs. It eventually pooled under the surface appearing like a rash (stasis dermatitis it's called) but it was misdiagnosed as psoriasis.

The Dr. had the nerve to say my high blood sugar and weight gain had to be from the holidays. I'd gained the weight in between Thanksgiving and Christmas. I protested and the Dr. put up his hands like he didn't want to hear it telling me that everyone overate during the holidays. "Not her!", my husband chuckled. "She measures every bite she eats and she refuses to eat anything she doesn't think is healthy." And it was true. Back then I literally weighed or measured every bite that went into my mouth. I don't have to do that now because I can fairly well eyeball something and tell how much it is. The Dr. then believed me.

Turns out part of my problem then was that the Dr. was allowing me to run very hyperthyroid. I was on thyroid meds and he was using the theory that if he gave me more meds I'd lose more weight. Good in theory but it doesn't work that way. All he was doing was making me very ill and I came close to dying because I developed a very rapid heartbeat because of it. Then instead of lowering my thyroid meds he just gave me something to slow down my heart. I was so happy when we moved to NY and I finally got some good medical care! I was no longer overheating. No longer in constant pain. No longer keeling over fainted because the food I'd just eaten had rushed right through me without being metabolized. No longer having to use my walker, etc.

Another weird thing was the food allergies. I hadn't realized that a lot of my "big stomach" was fluid retention and gas trapped in there from eating that which I was allergic to. My daughter lost in immediate 10 pounds once we changed her diet after having found out about the allergies. And I lost more than that, but I can't remember exactly how much. I did go down a whole clothing size though. Just by eliminating the foods I was allergic to.

[berrymarymac]

My mom was very skinny until she had me and it was a chain reaction, she took hormones and gained weight. Now my mom's side of the family are overweight, I wouldn't say obese but we have some that are. I grew up having a good weight until like I was 6 or 7, I was on a mostly vegetarian diet and ate very little compared to some of my friends. I am labelled as morbidly obese and recently weighed myself, saying 288.5. I have not really been past 300, and do not wish to...except when I'm bloated.

But it seemed everyone in my family has a thyroid problem, so yes...I do think obesity and genetics are linked. Also diet, because if diet had no factor...then we wouldn't be losing weight when we went on one! I know people talk about it all the time, saying we're in an epidemic and now they think they have a vaccine for it! It's rediculous, it's not the Black Plague!!!!! But the news makes me mad because I don't want to be a statistic.

Now I gained weight mostly because my doctor wouldn't diagnose my thryoid problem for about 9 years! Now that it is regulated, I am losing weight. So I wasn't one of those who sat down and ate maybe a whole pizza (which sadly I have done...) and then had a bag of cookies, washed it down with a liter of coke and then was still hungry.

In that sense of over eating, I think it's your own fault personally, sure genetic might be in affect but if you kill yourself that way...then you are just as much to blame because you can get help to control it in the beginning not when you are 400+ pounds later! You pick up the bucket of deep fried chicken...not your DNA. :rolleyes:

Don't know if this helps any, but just my insight on it all. I had more to say, but it didn't make sense lol

[juliebove]

juliebove - i hope i didn't strike a nerve with my questions. If I did I appologize. Do you think the diet could have switched the thyroid and stuff to turn in your 30's as if your body said "enough is enough." I know you said you dind't have a bad diet, but even cooked can cause some drastic health things from being so acidic. As a "perpetual dieter" were you doing fad diets, restricting, ect? Those tht have dieted their whole lives seem to do everything but raw and a lifestyle chnge (not saying you, just from what I've observed). Were you consuming milk when your daughter was breastfeeding or other allergenic foods that could be passed to her to cause her to throw up? Is she on a raw diet now? I'm not doubting that it could be genetics, but mybe it could be combated?

With the amount of food you said it sounds like your body could be in starvation mode and WILL gain or at least not lose weight if it's like that. Ok I'll shut up now, I'm just asking some questions nd I hope I don't come off as judgemental at all.

As I've said elsewhere, I've always eaten a lot of raw food. My body has never been acidic. I have checked this. I was eating foods I was allergic to. That was probably part of the problem. I was not consuming milk. I thought I was lactose intolerant. Turns out I have a dairy allergy. I was eating some cheese. I was eating eggs. I have a severe egg allergy.

I am sure now that the reason my daughter was throwing up was because she was allergic to the formula I was giving her. It's either cow's milk based or soy based. She is allergic to both. It was a very stressful time for me because they told me she could die if I didn't supplement. At the time, there was a local case of a woman who refused to supplement her baby and the baby died. Starved to death. That woman went to jail. I didn't want this to happen. I didn't want my daughter to have soy. I didn't think it was good for her. My mom didn't want her to have cow's milk because she was allergic and I'd been allergic as a baby. Turns out my allergy never went away as she thought it had.

My daughter is allergic to wheat, gluten, dairy, eggs, bananas, peanuts and soy. She never liked baby food. One of her first foods was canned green beans. I'd read this was good because the baby can eat them without having to chew much and they're a good finger food. She demanded green beans with every meal until she was about 6 and then I think she got burned out on them. She did not like meat. I didn't give her any eggs until after she was 1. She didn't much care for them. She liked grilled cheese sandwiches, macaroni and cheese, peanut butter sandwiches. She liked hummus with pita bread or carrots and cucumber slices. Some fruit. Some other veggies.

My daughter is not on a raw diet nor would she do it. You can't force kids to eat things they don't want to. You can try, but they'll just go sneak food from other places. Other people's houses, or even resort to stealing it to get what they want. My daughter had a friend who came from a house with very strict eating policies. The kids were only allowed certain amounts of food at certain times of the day and only certain things. It appeared to me there was no rhyme nor reason to some of the rules. The parents obviously thought they were giving the kids a good diet, but I'd have to dispute some of that.

What these parents didn't understand though is that kids do sometimes get hungry between meals. When they're having a growth spurt they'll eat more. They refused to allow the kids any more food, ever. If they were caught sneaking the food from the house they were punished with loss of their next meal. They also did a lot of religious stuff that didn't set well with me, but that's their business.

What happened was those kids were essentially starving by not being given enough food but also felt very deprived in a number of ways. Not only could they not eat what the other kids were eating, but they could not wear what they were wearing, do what they were doing, etc. The kids were home schooled and kept pretty much to themselves. And yet, the mom would at times just turn them loose outside all day long with no supervision.

One day I was babysitting a little boy who had recently lost his mother. He was not in a good place mentally and ate little more than iceberg lettuce and jelly beans. I knew this. He has gotten better slowly but at that point in time they were allowing him to eat what he would. So he'd brought over a bag of jelly beans. He and my daughter had decided to come in and play because it was too hot outside. But they'd brought out more toys than they could bring back in at once. So I intended to go back out there and get the rest of the stuff. But something happened. I can't remember what it was now, but I was delayed in getting back out there.

When I opened the door to go back outside, there was the neighbor girl cramming the jelly beans into her mouth. It was a pathetic sight. I didn't say anything to her. I didn't say anything to her parents. I knew if I did, she would likely be beaten. I wasn't the only one who had problems like this with this girl and her siblings. I'd discussed this with the other neighbors and it was the general consensus that the kids resorted to stealing the food because they were so deprived at home. I'd also had problems with kids coming into my kitchen and taking food. I had a tendency to leave my door unlocked back then and since I had a ground floor apartment it was easy for them to come in there and take something without being noticed.

Every day, weather permitting, I'd bring out plates of cut up raw veggies and fruit to share with the kids. But these kids were even denied having any of this. I'd ask the parents and to my face they'd tell me that the kids could have some of my snack but later I discovered that they were being severely punished if they took so much as a bite of it. So while I thought I was doing a good thing, it wasn't helping. So I let them steal the food from me and didn't say anything.

Growing up, I had a friend who was legally blind. Cancer in her eyes at age 8. She had one glass eye and little vision left in the other. It was bad enough that she had to cope with being blind, but her mom also thought she was overweight. She wasn't. Her mom was also a caterer and was always cooking up all sorts of decadent foods at home. But my friend wasn't allowed to have any of this food. Her mom would make her special "shakes" bars of food or just salad. She wasn't allowed anything else in an effort to get her to lose weight. She too resorted to sneaking food whenever she could.

So it would seem to me that forcing a kid to eat a diet they do not want to eat is not going work. My daughter is already restricted enough by her food allergies. She simply can not eat what the other kids eat. She knows this. She is not one to sneak foods that she is allergic to because she doesn't want to feel ill. Not all kids are like this though. She has a friend with all of her food allergies plus a few more. In talking to this girl's mom I realize how next to impossible it is to come up with anything this poor girl can eat besides rice. But she is also unwilling to try anything or eat anything she does not like. My daughter is not like that. She is very willing to try things. She will sometimes eat something she doesn't particularly like when we can't find anything else that she can eat without causing a reaction.

At this point I feel I am doing the best I can with her diet. There are just not enough things in the raw food spectrum that she will eat to give her a balanced diet. She loves rice and pasta. I've tried sending green salad to school for her lunch. It comes home uneaten. She needs to eat. There are some things we simply do not bring in to the house. That's fine. She understands this.

And as I have said before, I do not believe there is any one diet that will work for all of us. I do not believe a raw diet will work for everyone. And at this point it time, it will not work for her.

[juliebove]

My mom was very skinny until she had me and it was a chain reaction, she took hormones and gained weight. Now my mom's side of the family are overweight, I wouldn't say obese but we have some that are. I grew up having a good weight until like I was 6 or 7, I was on a mostly vegetarian diet and ate very little compared to some of my friends. I am labelled as morbidly obese and recently weighed myself, saying 288.5. I have not really been past 300, and do not wish to...except when I'm bloated.

But it seemed everyone in my family has a thyroid problem, so yes...I do think obesity and genetics are linked. Also diet, because if diet had no factor...then we wouldn't be losing weight when we went on one! I know people talk about it all the time, saying we're in an epidemic and now they think they have a vaccine for it! It's rediculous, it's not the Black Plague!!!!! But the news makes me mad because I don't want to be a statistic.

Now I gained weight mostly because my doctor wouldn't diagnose my thryoid problem for about 9 years! Now that it is regulated, I am losing weight. So I wasn't one of those who sat down and ate maybe a whole pizza (which sadly I have done...) and then had a bag of cookies, washed it down with a liter of coke and then was still hungry.

In that sense of over eating, I think it's your own fault personally, sure genetic might be in affect but if you kill yourself that way...then you are just as much to blame because you can get help to control it in the beginning not when you are 400+ pounds later! You pick up the bucket of deep fried chicken...not your DNA. :rolleyes:

Don't know if this helps any, but just my insight on it all. I had more to say, but it didn't make sense lol

And sometimes when a person does overeat there is a reason for it. When my daughter was younger, she always thought she was hungry. Always! She'd be eating her meal and stop in the middle of it to tell me she was hungry. Now I know it was her food allergies causing this.

She did not know what hunger was because her stomach was constantly upset. In fact we had trouble potty training her because she could not tell when she needed to go or in fact was going. Apparently this is very common with kids who have food allergies, and dairy allergies in particular.

I did notice a difference between her and some other kids because the other kids would not want to stop playing to eat. They'd have to be forced to eat. Not her. Never. She would never refuse food. She wouldn't necessarily eat the food though and in fact began hording some of it. Candy in particular. Everywhere we go, people give her candy. But she never eats it. Just saves it in a jar.

So she would say she was hungry. I'd give her something to eat. She'd try maybe one bite, if that, then scream angrily, "I don't want THIS!" Yet she would never know what it was she did want.

Now I am merely surmising this because she doesn't remember some of this from when she was much younger. She knew that hunger causes a feeling in the tummy. Her tummy was always in pain. This I do know. Only after the pain stopped did she realize that it was in fact pain. And she had this pain since birth. So on a concious level she knew that food was supposed to stop pain in the tummy. She would then turn to food. But when it didn't help, she would turn to another food. Alas, pretty much all of what I'd been giving her were the foods kids commonly eat and she was allergic to it all!

Now I have the opposite problem with her. She now knows what hunger feels like but she can't figure it out. She will say to me, "I don't know why, but I'm hungry!" I will then say to her, "Look at the clock. It's time to eat. That's why you're hungry." I guess after all those years of telling her she couldn't possibly be hungry she now can't figure out why she is.

But I still can't figure out why she is a bit overweight. I have wondered if she might have a thyroid problem because both sides of my family have them. So far I have failed at getting any Drs. to test her for it. I will try again when she has her upcoming "well child" visit.

But back to what I started to say! Hehe... People often use food as a substitute for something else. Just as some other people use drugs or alcohol. My one grandma even said she had an "addictive personality" and this was before such phrasing was commonplace. She was joking about it saying that it was a good thing she didn't like alcohol or she'd be an alcoholic. She had a problem with food like this and she knew it.

She had a hard life, I'm sure. I don't know much about when she was a child, but as a married woman, she had 8 kids plus many miscarriages. She lived through the Great Depression and they were a poor family. My mom used to say that if you didn't grab food quickly off the dinner table you wouldn't get any because there wasn't any to spare. They did live on a farm so that helped I suppose that did help. But I do know in the case of my grandma, food was one of the pleasures she had in her life where she could indulge. She could hoard enough ingredients to make a pan of fudge and eat it all herself while the kids were in school. And she admitted to doing stuff like this. She used to belong to Overeaters Anonymous. She said it helped.

But I used to work with a woman who was very thin. So thin that a size 0 was sometimes too big for her. Yet she ate constantly and none of it good! I never saw her eat a vegetable or fruit. Her motto was, "I'm having a bad day so I'm going to go eat a box of candy. A really BIG box of candy!" And she did. Pretty much every day. Plus cookies, chips, fast food, whatever she could get her hands on so long as it was junk. She had been married several times. She could never seem to be in a good relationship. She was unable to have children. For what reason, I do not know. She never said why but it was clearly a hot button topic for her because she'd start tearing up when the subject came up. She always married men with kids because she really wanted a family but things never seemed to work out for her. She was an emotional mess!

So how then does one person get fat from eating too much another remain so thin? This is a mystery. But clearly we all have different metabolisms.

[berrymarymac]

Juliebove, I know exactly what you are saying!! I actually stopped eating because of depression when most people would pick up a box of that candy and eat it all...it was strange, I love or loved the pain from hunger, well...it was comforting. Just realized that. But I was still overweight!!

But also I over eat when I'm alone. So I know there are problems people have when they over eat that's why I said, at the beginning people can get help from it.

I'm glad your daughter isn't in pain anymore and you have figured out her food allergies! It's awful to see a child in pain, and I can imagine it's even more so when you have one of your own and they are the one in pain.

[mel123]

this is an age old question...which has been raised a million times...i think the first thing to address is our fat-phobic society...many of us are striving and striving to be thin...to be perfect....why? i is really only in this era following twiggy that we have become so obssesed with being so thin....and now twiggy has gained a few pounds and looks gorgeous...the ideal "thin" that we see now has been forced on us by the media...and these models where only selected in the beginning because the curvier, sexier models got more attention than the clothes they were modeling.....thinner women were initially chosen to model because they were not a distraction....i do believe that genetics are different from person to person....i am a tall, large woman...an amazon...so to speak...i am 5'9" and wear an 11 size shoe....there is no way that i should expect to be as small as my 5'6" sister who wears a size 7 shoe....(we have different fathers)...it just makes sense...i remember dieting and being totally frustrated weighing 175 lbs...i thought that was ridiculous...i was only 15lbs from "my ideal" and wanted to lose it...well, i just ended up frustrating my self more and more until i binged to 220 lbs...it was unrealistic for me to constantly yell at myself over 15 pounds...where does that come from...from all the "thin" programming in this culture...i was perfect and even now i am perfect...do i think that diet and exercise can aid in health...yes, absolutely....but, diet and exercise(no matter what diet) is damaging to the pshye if we do it from a point of self-condemnation...screaming at ourselves about weight is emotionally and physically damaging to ourselves...while we are so concerned about all the poisons that go into our body....think of all the poisons we generate in our body by being hateful to ourselves....anyway, i get a little passionate about this...to answer your question, i think that the issue of obesity is more complex that we give it credit for being....saying in our thoughts or otherwise, to an obese person, just stop eating is cruel and thoughtless...if they could..they would....as someone who is recovering from bingeing disorder...i understand...many times the only way i would feel safe and free of anxiety was after i was numb with food...always felt unsafe my whole life...and it was only until i had the skills to peek out and a strong support system that i begin to heal....and healing i snot an easy thing...there are still days i am so anxious i have to go to bed so that i don't binge...it is not as easy....Melissa

[lissomllama]

I know that certain people are predisposed to obesity in that their body types and metabolisms can be the type that make them more prone to putting on weight, BUT, I believe that true obesity denotes illness and/or a lack of control. There should come a point WELL before the 400 pound mark where a healthy person realizes that something needs to be done. So, honestly, I do see an unwillingness to sacrifice and a need to over-indulge as a cause for many peoples' obesity but many times it is partly or wholy because of illness (mental or physical) etc. In my family, the women on my father's side are genetically predisposed to put on pounds. We start out with gorgeous hourglass figures and rounded, feminine features but with rather slow matabolisms so if we don't watch it, the pounds easily pack on, but still, there is no excuse for obesity in the case of my family. Personally, I know I could never ever allow myself to get that way. I just wouldn't allow it. I've never been heavier than a junior's size 10 and that was only when I was eating alot of cooked food, but if I hadn't done anything, I know the pounds would have crept up because that is how I'm built. Now that I'm raw, I am staying with my nice, shapely, hourglass figure and just the right amounts of plump in all the right places. I'm built well, but I'm built like a woman, so I automatically am prone to weight gain. However, I simply don't have to worry about it on raw. In the case of obese men, I think it has something to do with hormone imbalances. The more testosterone in the system, the less likely one is to put on weight, but the more estrogen, the more weight gets put on. Alot of women and men have imbalanced hormones these days due to medications, birth control, animal products, soy etc.

[lissomllama]

this is an age old question...which has been raised a million times...i think the first thing to address is our fat-phobic society...many of us are striving and striving to be thin...to be perfect....why? i is really only in this era following twiggy that we have become so obssesed with being so thin....and now twiggy has gained a few pounds and looks gorgeous...the ideal "thin" that we see now has been forced on us by the media...and these models where only selected in the beginning because the curvier, sexier models got more attention than the clothes they were modeling.....thinner women were initially chosen to model because they were not a distraction....i do believe that genetics are different from person to person....i am a tall, large woman...an amazon...so to speak...i am 5'9" and wear an 11 size shoe....there is no way that i should expect to be as small as my 5'6" sister who wears a size 7 shoe....(we have different fathers)...it just makes sense...i remember dieting and being totally frustrated weighing 175 lbs...i thought that was ridiculous...i was only 15lbs from "my ideal" and wanted to lose it...well, i just ended up frustrating my self more and more until i binged to 220 lbs...it was unrealistic for me to constantly yell at myself over 15 pounds...where does that come from...from all the "thin" programming in this culture...i was perfect and even now i am perfect...do i think that diet and exercise can aid in health...yes, absolutely....but, diet and exercise(no matter what diet) is damaging to the pshye if we do it from a point of self-condemnation...screaming at ourselves about weight is emotionally and physically damaging to ourselves...while we are so concerned about all the poisons that go into our body....think of all the poisons we generate in our body by being hateful to ourselves....anyway, i get a little passionate about this...to answer your question, i think that the issue of obesity is more complex that we give it credit for being....saying in our thoughts or otherwise, to an obese person, just stop eating is cruel and thoughtless...if they could..they would....as someone who is recovering from bingeing disorder...i understand...many times the only way i would feel safe and free of anxiety was after i was numb with food...always felt unsafe my whole life...and it was only until i had the skills to peek out and a strong support system that i begin to heal....and healing i snot an easy thing...there are still days i am so anxious i have to go to bed so that i don't binge...it is not as easy....Melissa


This isn't about being thin though, this is about simply, not being obese. No matter how 'fat-phobic' a society becomes, there is nothing healthy about being obese. Obesity is a disease and I've neverseen or heard about a healthy obese person. I don't mean 'fat', I mean obese. One does not have to be model thin to be 'skinny'. A healthy weight simply does not include numbers in the obese range. Some societies in the past embraced obesity and saw it as a sign of royalty, but it is still unhealthy. The human body is only designed to carry so much weight. Therefore, I feel fine objecting to obesity. I think it is sad and repulsive that a body can put on so much weight as to cause it to malfunction. This isn't 'fat-phobia', this is simple logic. We are not built to do this to our bodies. I still love the person, but I don't support the right to become obese. I think it is horrible the way the unhealthily thin people torture everyone with their advertising and all that as well and of course everyone should love themselves even if they aren't healthy, but condoning obesity and making it 'ok' only hurts people and tells them that it is ok to remain that way. People need to know what is healthy and that after a certain point, the body can gain too much weight. Illness often is the root cause of obesity and the way to prevent it and/or heal it is by eating a species appropriate diet and following that lifestyle, and that lifestyle is RAW vegan. If everyone were raw vegan, I know that obesity wouldn't be an issue.


I am really tired of hearing about how the poor food choices and lack of exercise are what make you fat. If only it were that simple!

Of course it isn't that simple, there are major illnesses that cause weight gain as well, but we know that eating cooked food and or animal products contributes to weight gain and living a totally sedentary lifestyle make many people fat. Also, not everyone has an illness and some people are only a little overweight. When I was slightly too pudgy it was only because my body was toxic, I was eating cooked food and animal products and not excercising enough. Sure it isn't always the root cause but it plays a huge part, hence why properly executed raw usually fixes these things in time.

[juliebove]

But aren't high bp, diabetese, and cancer predominently caused by diet?

Huh? No! Some people (but very few) respond to the DASH diet for high BP. Most people with high BP do not find it is any lower by restricting sodium.

I do not think cancer is caused by diet. Both my MIL and FIL have/had it. FIL is no longer with us. The house that they lived in where my husband was born and grew up was found to be contaminated with something. I don't remember what the substance was but the entire block is contaminated with hit and those houses are now condemed. The people who lived in that area are dropping like flies from cancer. In their case it was not necessarily something they ate, although I suppose if they grew fruits and vegetables then whatever chemical it was would have gotten into their food. Rather they were inhaling this stuff every day and it had seeped into every inch of their homes. It's probably even in their furniture and things that they took with them, but really I don't know enough about what the problem was to begin with so I can't comment on that. And they don't talk about it much.

As for diabetes, there are over 300 variations but for the most part we are lumped into either type 1, type 2 or gestational. Type 1 is thought to be caused by a virus that attacks the pancreas. Gestational only comes on during pregnancy and has something to do with the placenta. Once the placenta is expelled the problem usually goes away, at least for a while. However a woman who has had GD is at a higher risk for developing type 2 in the future.

At this point, nobody knows what causes type 2, but for many of us it stars with Syndrome X which is a combination of high BP, high cholesterol and weight gain particularly around the middle. This is one of those chicken or egg things. Which came first? Although the common notion is that people with type 2 got it because they are overweight, there is another school of thought that says they became overweight because of it! This seems to be how I was.

I was normal weight. Went to the Dr. and he commented that I had high BP. Probably genetics I said. My dad had it. My brother had it. Brother is younger than me. A few years went by. I began putting on weight, all around the middle despite my being active and not eating any more. And lastly the high cholesterol. All before the diagnosis of diabetes.

As we are now finding out, diabetes is a very complex thing and there is much more to it than we used to think. I know a couple of diabetics who have been found to have adrenal suppression. This is just another variation. I have the most recent Joslin book on diabetes. The folks at Joslin are the diabetes specialists. This book was very expensive and was written for Drs. It's also huge and hardbound. Just lifting it up is a workout. Heh! Much of it is medical jargon that goes beyond my comprehension. But in reading it, it is clear that we still have much to learn about it. What we know now is just the tip of the iceberg. It's far more complex than just not producing enough or any insulin or being insulin resistant.

[Rawmommie]

I absolutely think it's genetic. Some people burn fat, junk, & nasty sad better than others. I've spent my life watching skinny people eat whatever they wanted and MORE than me and yet I have always been overweight.

Even now, almost 2 years raw I weight 195 pounds. This is where my body wants to be. I don't know why, but I'm learning to accept it. I'm not obese and I'm healthy and I may never been skinny, but I FEEL great. :)

Even eating raw I have seen people who eat more or the same amount as me and are complaining that they are too thin and keep losing, so I definitely think that our bodies process food differently depending on our genetic makeup.

[eatyourbroccoli]

no, i do not think that OBESITY is genetic.

i think people with similar genetic makeups will react to food in similar fashions and since families tend to eat similar diets they all end up looking..similar.

its the habits that get passed on.

[lissomllama]

Diet may not be the only cause for high blood pressure, cancer and diabetes etc. but it certainly contributes. Cancer is worsened by toxins introduced to the body and not filtered out, for example. Of course there are other causes for these issues, like pollution, radiation etc. but diet/lifestyle etc. plays a role in many people for sure. These diseases we have are mostly modern day afflictions, before the onset of industrialization and processed foods, these diseases were less common and I'm willing to bet that before the onset of cooked food and animal product eating, these diseases were probably almost non-existent. Now we're a breeding ground for it and the common denominators are pollution, processed foods, cooked foods and animal products.

[mel123]

thank you for your response...if you will endulge me for a min...i would like to quote from some of your post...."i think it is sad and repulsive....." "i dont support the right to be obese" "of course, everyong should love themselves even if they are unhealthy" i want to respond as thoughtfully as possible...our society is particularly conditioned in a certain way...to believe that a certain body type is correct....i do not support obesity...i do not support any harmful behaviour....the issue in my mind is how do we approach the issue of obesity...do we treat obese peolpe harshly...when we discuss obesity...are we harsh?...saying things like "an obese body is repulsive"....honestly how is that benefical to anyone in anyway...of course, we should love ouselves...how about we begin with loving ourselves...as someone who has struggled with weight the main issue has been learning to love myself...not allowing myself to endulge in self-destructive behavior...but really accepting myself and my difficulties....mine include bingeing...someone else's difficulty may not be as obvious as mine...but we all have them...how would it feel to you if someone kept yelling at you over your particular difficulty...showing no mercy or compassion...or saying that whatever the difficulty is...it was repulsive to them...it would not help you in ridding yourself of this behavior...as some of us chose not to eat animal products based on our compassion for animals...let us embrace compassion for others...particularily if we do not have a direct experience with that challange in our own life....

[juliebove]

[QUOTE=lissomllama]This isn't about being thin though, this is about simply, not being obese. No matter how 'fat-phobic' a society becomes, there is nothing healthy about being obese. Obesity is a disease and I've neverseen or heard about a healthy obese person. I don't mean 'fat', I mean obese. One does not have to be model thin to be 'skinny'. A healthy weight simply does not include numbers in the obese range. Some societies in the past embraced obesity and saw it as a sign of royalty, but it is still unhealthy. The human body is only designed to carry so much weight. Therefore, I feel fine objecting to obesity. I think it is sad and repulsive that a body can put on so much weight as to cause it to malfunction. This isn't 'fat-phobia', this is simple logic. We are not built to do this to our bodies. I still love the person, but I don't support the right to become obese. I think it is horrible the way the unhealthily thin people torture everyone with their advertising and all that as well and of course everyone should love themselves even if they aren't healthy, but condoning obesity and making it 'ok' only hurts people and tells them that it is ok to remain that way. People need to know what is healthy and that after a certain point, the body can gain too much weight. Illness often is the root cause of obesity and the way to prevent it and/or heal it is by eating a species appropriate diet and following that lifestyle, and that lifestyle is RAW vegan. If everyone were raw vegan, I know that obesity wouldn't be an issue.

There is another issue here that used to be a factor in the past but isn't a factor for us now. In the old days, food was very hard to come by in the winter. So people would fatten up as best they could for the impending winter. Some people still do this when they do not have a realible source of food coming in at all times.

I know of one woman (don't know her personally but I heard it being discussed) who for all of her life had relied upon donations of food to live on. I don't know any particulars except that she was living on an Indian reservation. She didn't always have food and would practically starve to death during the lean times. When she did have food, she had a lot of it at once and would tend to eat it all at once, growing fat.

Then suddenly her situation changed and she had a never ending supply of food all the time. She continued as she always had, stuffing herself daily, never seeming to realize that now there was not going to be a lean time where they would be no food. She grew fatter and fatter to the point where it was indeed causing medical problems.

Of course I do realize this is not a normal situation by any means.

[juliebove]

no, i do not think that OBESITY is genetic.

i think people with similar genetic makeups will react to food in similar fashions and since families tend to eat similar diets they all end up looking..similar.

its the habits that get passed on.

Nope. Explain then how I am the only vegetarian (now vegan) in the family? I do not eat the same things my family eats. Never have.

[lissomllama]

Well first of all, I have experienced tons of jeering and horrible abuse as a child for not being perfectly skinny so I know exactly what that is even though I was never obese. I know how it feels. I don't at all believe that the person is repulsive, I love family members that are morbidly obese and they are my whole world. I love them and treat them like anyone else. I never bring up their obesity or try to change them, but I don't think it is a good way to be. I know that there is no certain body that is the 'right' body, but I do know what it is unhealthy and not meant to be, This trancends looks, by far. This is about health, in my mind. To me, horrible health (on either end of the weight spectrum) is repulsive. I find anorexia (something I suffered with for a long time) to be equally as repulsive as obesity, because it is unheathy and not the way our precious bodies are meant to function. I don't support radical ways of depriving the body OR over-indulging the body either and illness causes both under and overweight. I believe that raw, vegan is the cure for all of this, so really, anything other than raw is repulsive to me because I believe that raw is how we were meant to eat. Of course, most people don't even know that it is because for hundreds of years we have deviated from that. By saying that I find obesity and severely low weight repulsive, I am saying that I find the condition of being so as repulsive. Not the person, and not neccessarily the body either. I have no problem saying that obesity is wrong. A healthy person is not obese. This is a truth to me. I know it sounds harsh but life is sometimes harsh. I really don't mean to hurt anyone and trust me, I've experienced insults, what I have to say here is in no way an insult.

[lissomllama]

[QUOTE=lissomllama]This isn't about being thin though, this is about simply, not being obese. No matter how 'fat-phobic' a society becomes, there is nothing healthy about being obese. Obesity is a disease and I've neverseen or heard about a healthy obese person. I don't mean 'fat', I mean obese. One does not have to be model thin to be 'skinny'. A healthy weight simply does not include numbers in the obese range. Some societies in the past embraced obesity and saw it as a sign of royalty, but it is still unhealthy. The human body is only designed to carry so much weight. Therefore, I feel fine objecting to obesity. I think it is sad and repulsive that a body can put on so much weight as to cause it to malfunction. This isn't 'fat-phobia', this is simple logic. We are not built to do this to our bodies. I still love the person, but I don't support the right to become obese. I think it is horrible the way the unhealthily thin people torture everyone with their advertising and all that as well and of course everyone should love themselves even if they aren't healthy, but condoning obesity and making it 'ok' only hurts people and tells them that it is ok to remain that way. People need to know what is healthy and that after a certain point, the body can gain too much weight. Illness often is the root cause of obesity and the way to prevent it and/or heal it is by eating a species appropriate diet and following that lifestyle, and that lifestyle is RAW vegan. If everyone were raw vegan, I know that obesity wouldn't be an issue.

There is another issue here that used to be a factor in the past but isn't a factor for us now. In the old days, food was very hard to come by in the winter. So people would fatten up as best they could for the impending winter. Some people still do this when they do not have a realible source of food coming in at all times.

I know of one woman (don't know her personally but I heard it being discussed) who for all of her life had relied upon donations of food to live on. I don't know any particulars except that she was living on an Indian reservation. She didn't always have food and would practically starve to death during the lean times. When she did have food, she had a lot of it at once and would tend to eat it all at once, growing fat.

Then suddenly her situation changed and she had a never ending supply of food all the time. She continued as she always had, stuffing herself daily, never seeming to realize that now there was not going to be a lean time where they would be no food. She grew fatter and fatter to the point where it was indeed causing medical problems.

Of course I do realize this is not a normal situation by any means.

That is very interesting. That primitive hibernation mentality was far more common before the modern age and I'm sure it still exits in many places.

[juliebove]

I know that certain people are predisposed to obesity in that their body types and metabolisms can be the type that make them more prone to putting on weight, BUT, I believe that true obesity denotes illness and/or a lack of control. There should come a point WELL before the 400 pound mark where a healthy person realizes that something needs to be done. So, honestly, I do see an unwillingness to sacrifice and a need to over-indulge as a cause for many peoples' obesity but many times it is partly or wholy because of illness (mental or physical) etc. In my family, the women on my father's side are genetically predisposed to put on pounds. We start out with gorgeous hourglass figures and rounded, feminine features but with rather slow matabolisms so if we don't watch it, the pounds easily pack on, but still, there is no excuse for obesity in the case of my family. Personally, I know I could never ever allow myself to get that way. I just wouldn't allow it. I've never been heavier than a junior's size 10 and that was only when I was eating alot of cooked food, but if I hadn't done anything, I know the pounds would have crept up because that is how I'm built. Now that I'm raw, I am staying with my nice, shapely, hourglass figure and just the right amounts of plump in all the right places. I'm built well, but I'm built like a woman, so I automatically am prone to weight gain. However, I simply don't have to worry about it on raw. In the case of obese men, I think it has something to do with hormone imbalances. The more testosterone in the system, the less likely one is to put on weight, but the more estrogen, the more weight gets put on. Alot of women and men have imbalanced hormones these days due to medications, birth control, animal products, soy etc.

Having been both underweight and overweight, I have to disagree with you. Although I've never been anywhere close to 400 pounds, I did realize I was overweight. And if it were as simple as a matter of sacrifice I would have gladly done it. It's not!

When I was underweight, I would try and try to gain weight. I simply could not. I hated being underweight because of the horrid comments people would make "behind my back". I was sick of people saying my parents didn't feed me or that I was anorexic. I hated not being able to find clothes that fit or being called nicknames like "Twiggy".

When I first began to gain some weight it was following an incident I posted elsewhere on this forum. I won't give all of the details here again, but I was very sick for an extended period of time and couldn't keep food down. Lost even more weight to the point of being near death. When I finally did put the weight back on I put more on and was finally "normal" weight. But to me it felt odd and fat because I'd always been skin and bones.

After a while, I adjusted to this. I was happy to finally be able to find clothes that fit me and to blend in to the rest of society without having people make nasty comments about me.

And then some years later I began to gain weight. It happened slowly of course. Yes, I knew it was happening but I didn't really care at first because I still looked good. People weren't making nasty comments about me. But I certainly wasn't indulging in anything! I wasn't making a lot of money back then. There was no extra money to buy anything to indulge myself in! Food or otherwise.

The shocker came when they weighed me at the Dr. and I was a little too close to 200 pounds for my comfort. That's when I decided to try to do something about it. And what I wound up doing was essentially starving myself. At that point in time it was the only way I could manage to lose any weight. I was exercising for 2+ hours every day in addition to my very active job, going out dancing once or twice a week and never sitting out any of the songs, so pretty much dancing for 5 hours a night. And eating very little food. Yes, I eventually lost some of the weight but not all that I wanted to lose. But no, I was not healthy at all! I was irritable and snappish and so hungry that I had to go to bed early each night to sleep so I could ignore the hunger pains. Which really was a good thing because I was exhausted anyway. I resorted to massive amounts of caffeine and cigarettes to calm my nerves and keep me awake.

The snapping point came when I got tendinitis first in my heel and then my arm from exercising too much. I was tired of not being able to eat anything resembling a normal sized meal. Tired of being hungry all the time. This was not living! I was merely trying to survive and not even very well at that.

I realize now that there were probably some things the Dr. didn't look for. Like diabetes. I may well have had it then. My thyroid tested normal, but I was smoking. From what I've read, smoking can do something that causes the thyroid to test normally and can mask the symptoms of a thyroid problem. Oddly, as soon as I quit smoking, the thyroid problem appeared. Actually the diabetes appeared (gestational diabetes) about the same time.

In my case I do believe a lot of my problems are medical ones. I know of a heck of a lot wrong with me and I'd be willing to bet there is more wrong with me that has yet to be diagnosed. Yes, the change in diet is helping but I'm still not totally well. Stress plays a big factor as well. I am living in a very stressful situation at the moment and that's not good!

[dreamrawalwz]

Huh? No! Some people (but very few) respond to the DASH diet for high BP. Most people with high BP do not find it is any lower by restricting sodium.

I do not think cancer is caused by diet. Both my MIL and FIL have/had it. FIL is no longer with us. The house that they lived in where my husband was born and grew up was found to be contaminated with something. I don't remember what the substance was but the entire block is contaminated with hit and those houses are now condemed. The people who lived in that area are dropping like flies from cancer. In their case it was not necessarily something they ate, although I suppose if they grew fruits and vegetables then whatever chemical it was would have gotten into their food. Rather they were inhaling this stuff every day and it had seeped into every inch of their homes. It's probably even in their furniture and things that they took with them, but really I don't know enough about what the problem was to begin with so I can't comment on that. And they don't talk about it much.

As for diabetes, there are over 300 variations but for the most part we are lumped into either type 1, type 2 or gestational. Type 1 is thought to be caused by a virus that attacks the pancreas. Gestational only comes on during pregnancy and has something to do with the placenta. Once the placenta is expelled the problem usually goes away, at least for a while. However a woman who has had GD is at a higher risk for developing type 2 in the future.

At this point, nobody knows what causes type 2, but for many of us it stars with Syndrome X which is a combination of high BP, high cholesterol and weight gain particularly around the middle. This is one of those chicken or egg things. Which came first? Although the common notion is that people with type 2 got it because they are overweight, there is another school of thought that says they became overweight because of it! This seems to be how I was.

I was normal weight. Went to the Dr. and he commented that I had high BP. Probably genetics I said. My dad had it. My brother had it. Brother is younger than me. A few years went by. I began putting on weight, all around the middle despite my being active and not eating any more. And lastly the high cholesterol. All before the diagnosis of diabetes.

As we are now finding out, diabetes is a very complex thing and there is much more to it than we used to think. I know a couple of diabetics who have been found to have adrenal suppression. This is just another variation. I have the most recent Joslin book on diabetes. The folks at Joslin are the diabetes specialists. This book was very expensive and was written for Drs. It's also huge and hardbound. Just lifting it up is a workout. Heh! Much of it is medical jargon that goes beyond my comprehension. But in reading it, it is clear that we still have much to learn about it. What we know now is just the tip of the iceberg. It's far more complex than just not producing enough or any insulin or being insulin resistant.

Not all cases of cancer are from diet, i know that, but I kinda meant in general? Chemicals and environment play a huge role. As for bp i wasn't talking aout sodium....just cooked versus raw. There are some that I know that tried everything to reduce their bp, but after raw they could get off meds completely. I guess I linked diabetes to diet because well...from news reports (yea, probably shouldn't listen to that?) they say those that are obese are eating obscene amounts of white products, milk, sugar, ect...

[juliebove]

Not all cases of cancer are from diet, i know that, but I kinda meant in general? Chemicals and environment play a huge role. As for bp i wasn't talking aout sodium....just cooked versus raw. There are some that I know that tried everything to reduce their bp, but after raw they could get off meds completely. I guess I linked diabetes to diet because well...from news reports (yea, probably shouldn't listen to that?) they say those that are obese are eating obscene amounts of white products, milk, sugar, ect...

Don't believe everything you hear, especially on the news.

[dreamrawalwz]

Don't believe everything you hear, especially on the news.

Yup, that's waht I've learned the past few years by being here...partially why I brought the topic up. I wanted to see what others know and have experienced. Thank you for sharing all that you have.

[Lay-Lay]

Maybe its just me, but I think this thread has turned a little argumentive. You know we all have our opionions on disease, obesity, and food. I respect everyones viewpoints and hope that mine are respected just the same. We all come from different life experiences that have caused us to have those viewpoints. There is no reason to be harsh to one another. We are all her for one reason or another. I find it pretty amazing that all of us here are trying for a similiar goal: to feel good (for whatever reason, sickness, weight, etc.) by eating raw and living foods.

How amazing are we. We are shaping not only ourselves a different lifestyle of eating, but are friends, family, co-workers, the guy on the treadmill next to you at the gym, the grocery clerk, and each other. How wonderful is that?

Much raw love!

[Sharon in Colorado]

I'm one of those who people seem to hate - most of my life I'd eat whatever I want and never gain weight, until after my pregnancies, I started putting more weight on. However I still appear thin to people because I'm 6'0 tall.

The health issue I deal with is high genetic cholesterol. It is even high on an all plant food diet. Lower than on the SAD, but still on the high side. Imagine, eating raw vegan food and having high cholesterol. With fatal heart attacks at young ages (my age for my father).

So I myself get a bit put off when I see people who are extremely overweight with very low cholesterol. Or eat all kinds of fatty meats and dairy and it hardly effects their levels. It doesn't seem fair.

[berrymarymac]

Well put Lay-Lay...I was going to mention something but didn't have the heart to! You put it into perfect words.

[Lay-Lay]

Well put Lay-Lay...I was going to mention something but didn't have the heart to! You put it into perfect words.


awww....thank you mrandal.

[luckitri]

Definately genetic. I was always so skinny that everyone wanted to feed me...as a kid and as a younger adult. I ate and ate and ate and never gained a pound and didn't seem to receive much energy from the food either. I have always eaten "healthy" and people comment on it. In this last decade of my life I am suddenly battling the weight - started with weight gain from undiagnosed Cushings disease. Anyway I am supposedly healthy now but the weight gain is unbelievable. I notice that often my body refuses to release waste until I have eaten - so even if I am not hungry I have to eat to get the bowels to move. I think that the body retaining weight is a survival mechanism from a time when food shortages were common and physical activity was the norm. I think that the body also hungers certain nutrients and the eating disorders come from the bodies need for a nutrient that is not available or possibly not absorbing for some reason. Personally I overcame my learned prejudice against fat people years ago but I am pretty militant about it and don't tolerant negative judgmentalism from anyone about anyone on this topic. When I was skinny it seemed that I caught everything that went around and would never have lived very long if I hadn't been born in this age of antibiotics - so I always figured hefty people had a stronger immune system as well as energy reserve and were built for survival. We have so much to learn. When I had the weight gain from the Cushings I knew there was something wrong. The Drs all blew me off and treated me extremely poorly as if they associate mental and emotional disorders with weight gain - like all fat people are trying to feed a broken heart or something. Some also tried to put me on dangerous weight loss drugs without considering the other symptoms which I just knew had to be related somehow. Scientific Inquiring Minds Doctors are NOT! The thing that makes me most angry about our medical system is that there is really no excuse with computer technology.....all symptoms should be recorded and a data base created to match against. My high blood pressure has given me problems in my head - I can feel it even though they say it is not possible. I suffered from the gall bladder for years - lost alot of time from work and threw up every morning - loudly with coughing and major heaving - and got sick alot with what I thought was stomach flue and a surprising amount of bad food.....NOT! If the Dr had access to a data base of those symptoms I would hope that they would have identified and eased my suffering alot sooner. My son must be so grossed out by women. He had to listen to me throwing up every morning for at least 5 years. The weight is the same - it is a symptom. And all the other symptoms that are seemingly unrelated need to be logged also. When they took a part of my lung out they weren't going to tell me. Well I could feel that it was gone which shocked them. They think that we can't feel these things. When it come to the female parts and what they are taught we can't feel - well it is just ridiculous - if we didn't have any of those feelings the human race would be extinct. I wish that there were a way that interested and socially responsible people could create this data base of symptoms since the medical establishment doesn't see any financial gain in it. Right now I am losing some weight - but the cause of my weight loss could be multiple - going raw, taking Omega3s, young coconut juice and meat. Taking the time to read all this is a luxury that many people don't have so they stay sick, they stay fat, etc. Wouldn't it be nice to have all of this data compiled in one site so people could research their symptoms - find out the possible cause and view solutions in a timely and concise manner?

[lissomllama]

Julieabove, I mentioned in my posts that obesity is not solely caused by laziness or unwillingness to make sacrifices, I also mentioned illnesses (physical and/or mental). I wasn't limiting it to one thing or labelling it as something simple to deal with. It isn't. I struggled with both overeating and anorexia and both were incredibly hard to overcome and I've spent my life up until this point doing that, because of this, I know that it is partly because of choices. Luckily I didn't have any real physical illnesses causing the problems, so for me, I decided not to let myself become overweight and on the other end of the spectrum, I decided not to lose myself in anorexia either. But I believe that even in the case of physical illness causing obesity or underweight, the person can choose if they want to stay that way. Going raw is the best example I can think of, but there are other (obviously less desirable) ways to do that as well. Of course it is complicated and difficult, but in the end I believe, in MOST cases, illnesses can be cured or prevented before obesity or underweight sets in. Sometimes if a person is naturally very skinny no matter what, it is even harder to put on weight, but not impossible, if all things are tried and still don't work, I'd say the person isn't really underweight and is just being told as such. Just as people are mis-labeled as being overweight when really they are just a little larger than others. But true obesity is fairly easy to see. That's fine if you don't agree with me but I think that my statements aren't being fully understood. Maybe it is an issue with my own way of 'putting it' so to speak. Oh well, no matter. :)

[dreamrawalwz]

Maybe its just me, but I think this thread has turned a little argumentive. You know we all have our opionions on disease, obesity, and food. I respect everyones viewpoints and hope that mine are respected just the same. We all come from different life experiences that have caused us to have those viewpoints. There is no reason to be harsh to one another. We are all her for one reason or another. I find it pretty amazing that all of us here are trying for a similiar goal: to feel good (for whatever reason, sickness, weight, etc.) by eating raw and living foods.

How amazing are we. We are shaping not only ourselves a different lifestyle of eating, but are friends, family, co-workers, the guy on the treadmill next to you at the gym, the grocery clerk, and each other. How wonderful is that?

Much raw love!

Maybe I shouldn't have posted this in the first place. :(

[VSL]

In the vast vast VAST majority of cases, the following applies:
Genetics load the gun, but behaviour pulls the trigger.

And the above is applicable to many things, from psychology to athletic potential.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, but those are rare.

[luckitri]

dreamrawalwz, I am glad that you posted this. This may be a topic that has some negative emotion attached to it but everyone has had wonderful insight to offer and there would be no response at all if it were not a good topic. Actually I have been thinking of "saving" this thread separately so I can reread at my leisure - there are alot of different ideas here.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Maybe I shouldn't have posted this in the first place. :(

No there are no mistakes. This discussion has benefiited some people and made others uncomfortable. So what, everyone is learning something right?

[Lay-Lay]

Maybe I shouldn't have posted this in the first place. :(


Oh sweetie you are fine. Some topics just ruffle peoples feathers. Sometimes people just forget that most of what we believe are just opinions. You did nothing wrong at all hun. I have enjoyed the thread. Thank you sooo much for posting it for discussion. It gave me some insights that I will take with me as well I am sure it did most if not all others.

[luckitri]

Yup - I am learning. Just started re-reading it again (more slowly this time) and I have to thank juliebove for explaining Syndrome X. I knew something was wrong with me like that and diabetes (Type 2) does run on both sides of my family but the Dr never told me. This is even more incentive to stay raw and try to get rid of that Syndrome X that I have. The doc harangues me to exercise more and lose the weight but fails to understand that with the SAD diet I simply was unable to. With RAW I have hope!

[berrymarymac]

I can see why you would regret posting this, but don't!!! I came to realize a lot in the replies and learned a lot!!

So..THANK YOU!!

[berrymarymac]

Yup - I am learning. Just started re-reading it again (more slowly this time) and I have to thank juliebove for explaining Syndrome X. I knew something was wrong with me like that and diabetes (Type 2) does run on both sides of my family but the Dr never told me. This is even more incentive to stay raw and try to get rid of that Syndrome X that I have. The doc harangues me to exercise more and lose the weight but fails to understand that with the SAD diet I simply was unable to. With RAW I have hope!

For a moment I thought you said Fragile X Syndrome and was like...huh?

I hope you lose weight as well! My doctors have done the same thing to me since I was 10 (9 year) and I know how frustrating it can be. I have only lost weight on raw