Felt Attacked!

[dreamrawalwz]

Maybe it's just because I'm overly sensative or because they were uneducated about raw, I'm not sure, but it felt like an attack on me and my lifestyle.

We went to cracker barrel and everyone got something to eat and I could have gotten a salad, but I chose not to. They asked why i wasn't eating so I told them about my allergies and it went on to raw vegan. The protein question came up so I explained how cooking the meat cuts the grams in half (an example) and only a fraction of that is assimilated in the body. I explained how all fruits and veggies have "protein" through amino acids and the body doesn't have to do that extra step of converting the animal protiein into amino acids. I talked about how cooking the veggie kills the enzymes and nutrients and agreed that occassionally A nutrient in a veggie is enhanced while cooking, but that MAJORITY of nutrients in that veggie are destroyed. Two were agreeing with me, one just listened with interest, and the other one attacked me.

She's like "you're wrong. That's not true. I'ts not half (even though i said it was an example) beacuse all meats are different. The body doesn't naturally assimilate anything we put in it "(that makes not sense to me). and just on and on about "this is waht I learned for 6 years in school and this is right." I tried to say that what you learn in school isn't always correct and they're teaching us the wrong things. The governemnt and USDA don't know what they're talking about. I can't relay it like it was, but she just kept attacking me. I wasn't attacking her I don't think, I was just trying to inform her what I have learned and personally experienced. I told her I won't go on and to jus stop the conversation since it's not going to work. Sad thing is...she's going to be a doctor :( Not that they're good, it's just the whole nutrition class (or lack of) that they go through.

I did point to another friends um, green beans I think (i couldn't tell they were SO cooked to mush) and said they're not supposed to be that color and he responded with "obviously not everything was destroyed or it wouldn't be green." uhh, is it just me or does that not make sense?

[PATH301]

You were and were not being attacked. Think about why you decided to change to raw? did you do it automatically? Some people will be open minded about new information that they have never heard before and some people will not. Some people are dogmatic on what they think is the truth even though it may be a lie. I have been where you were today. And at those times, even though you can whip out hundreds of documentations backing up your knowledge - they still will not go there. At this point sometimes it's just easier to walk away.
Now it sounds like the other two lady's are interested. So hook up with them and invite them to lunch and you make it for them and let them decide for them selves if they like the taste, show them some documents about the sad point of view along with some success stories of the RAW point of view. There's an old MLM statement: some will - some won't - so what.
Keep on - keepin on!!!

[dreamrawalwz]

You were and were not being attacked. Think about why you decided to change to raw? did you do it automatically? Some people will be open minded about new information that they have never heard before and some people will not. Some people are dogmatic on what they think is the truth even though it may be a lie. I have been where you were today. And at those times, even though you can whip out hundreds of documentations backing up your knowledge - they still will not go there. At this point sometimes it's just easier to walk away.
Now it sounds like the other two lady's are interested. So hook up with them and invite them to lunch and you make it for them and let them decide for them selves if they like the taste, show them some documents about the sad point of view along with some success stories of the RAW point of view. There's an old MLM statement: some will - some won't - so what.
Keep on - keepin on!!!

Thanks. I was going to add in my post, but forgot to, that I can understand from her point of view because that is what she's been taught. Why would she know any differnet? So I do see both sides, I just wish others were more open. I didn't know about raw, but when I did I KNEW it was right and jumped in it 100%. Now, I have had my offs and ons, but I knew it was waht to strive for. Not sure if that answered your question or not.

[Laurina]

Hi Dreamrawltz,

I feel for you, I've come across people who are trained in traditional medicine or nutrition, and thouht, "Oopsie." It is useless to try to explain anything to them or anyone who has their mind closed. There was no reason for that gal to get so nasty with you. I've found it easier to focus on my own improvement, and not say anything once people begin to come on like that. Sorry it happened to you.

[Lay-Lay]

I think she probally felt threatened because she felt she was the authority on the subject. You were telling her things that were just alien to her. From my experiences I try to not get into real deep detail of my lifestyle. If they really, really want to know. I ask them: "would you like to come over and I show you a few recipes?" It is a super easy approach for friends and family and they often say: "yeah, when?" or if they really aren't serious they will say: um yeah we will have to do that some time" and I reply: "well the door is always open just let me know when you can".

To strangers and coworkers I just write down the website address and let them check it out for themselves if they want too.

[GoddessInTheRough]

Hey Dream,
When you go out with people and are not going to have a meal, at least order some sliced cucumbers or tomatoes. Focus on the pleasure of being there in the moment without feeling you have to defend or convert. The whole raw food movement is frightening to people, especially if they are studying to be healers in conventional medicine. It feels radical, and not life affirming, more so, if you point out that someone's meal is no better than dung at the table! The woman who came after you was not just attacking your ideas, but fighting a deeper fear that could have been undermining all of her core beliefs about helping others. I work for a family that expects me to eat with them after I fix their meals. I found a great compromise by just eating the dishes that are raw and vegan, without commenting on the foods they choose. (I am militant about the kids eating a veggie, even if it is cooked.) All that aside, meal times are for nurturing. No matter what is being eaten, keep debates for after. If someone wants to question you, then say, "I will share my thoughts any time, but not when we are trying to nourish our bodies." Just my two cents, thanks!

[Revvell]

I'm not clear where you are being attacked. Just as you were "trying" to educate her from your knowledge and understanding she was "trying" to educate you from her pov.

One thing I've learned is not to take things personally. Nothing she said about this is about you. It's about her education. Then again, she may have felt attacked by you for (basically) telling her all the money she spent on her education was wasted because it's all wrong.

So what happens is, no one enjoys their food which to me is worse than eating cooked.

Revvell
"Leave others to their otherness and take care of yourself"

[luvnraw]

Dreamrawalwz ~ Try not to feel too attacked by it. Unless you are raw or searching to feel better they probably won't get it.....especially with her classes she is taking! Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree :confused: You presented your case very well! Hehe, my sister actually takes canned green beans and then cooks them over the stove for half an hour as she fixes the rest of the dinner......yep they are still green, not bright and beautiful green though and I can't imagine any nutrition is left in them but she thinks they are healthy and she is doing herself and her family a great service by getting their veggies in......and that after reading most of Alissa's book I bought for her! :eek:

[RawChicky]

I can't even begin to discuss raw with my brother because he goes crazy and insists that i am brainwashed!

[juliebove]

Just remember, Drs. are not authorities on nutrition. They do have to take a course in it, but only one course compared to all the other courses they take on other things. Personally I wouldn't have spent as much time as you did on the subject. I don't feel it's up to me to try to change people. Most people are set in their ways. I do talk to some people online on another forum who are very interested in the raw diet. They asked me to keep them updated. I didn't push anything at them. I mentioned it and they were interested. Like me, they have various medical problems and so far nothing they've tried has helped. So if they ask me about it, I till tell them what I know. But other than that, it's not worth my time to say anything.

[Coriander74]

Just remember, Drs. are not authorities on nutrition. They do have to take a course in it, but only one course compared to all the other courses they take on other things. .

Isn't this sad????? My psychiatrist told me the same thing, she had ONE nutrition class at the end of her schooling.
I'm curious as to why this isn't even approached since nutrition is absolutely essential to all functions of the body!

And Dream, good for you for speaking your mind and explaining your beliefs and way of eating. I understand how it feels like an attack, she has been taught differently.

[Judy]

I think we all do and eat what feels right to us, whether that be cooked, raw, vegetarian, macrobiotic, ayurvedic or whatever. Everyone has different ideas on food, that's just the way it is. It is a complicated subject seen in a scientific (rational) light, who knows what is really right and wrong? Personally, I don't think it's a complicated subject when we all would eat according to our intuition and our needs and let eachother be.
Even on this raw board, the idea of what an ideal raw diet should look like, differs per person. The other day, someone posted a question about a certain food, and got different (pro and con) answers, making the subject more complicated than he hoped for. Eventually we all have to decide for ourselves how we would like to eat and how we feel when eating certain things.
I think you can have endless discussions about food, and different people can be right (or wrong). Personally, I don't want to explain why I am eating this way, it just feels right to me, and I don't want to get 'scientific', because I don't think that's important and also very debatable. If I feel good, that's the evidence I rely on. So if someone asks, a short answer in my opinion will do. And if someone worries, saying that I eat all different kinds of things to meet my nutricional needs, will also do. My guess is that that other woman wasn't necessarily attacking you and felt attacked herself too. No one likes to feel preached to, meaning that you have your ideas about food, and someone else has others. And that's ok. I think it's not about being right or wrong and having to prove it or having to talk a lot about it, especially not to people who don't really have any interest in the subject and only want to hold on to their point of view. I like the idea of just living it, and when people are really interested about what you do and how you feel and look, they will come to you and ask you about what you're doing.

What do you think yourself? What would you do if such an occasion occurs in the future, and this time, you want to get a sense of peace and satisfaction out of it, not only for yourself but for the other(s) as well?

[berrymarymac]

Sorry about that happening to you!! My dad was chief of residency at a major hospital in Atlanta and he told my mom that when he went to med school there was a ONE DAY class on nutrition and that was it! He's an OB/GYN and I think nutrition during pregnancy is the most important thing! So yeah, it's very very scary!!

I went to a nutritionist and she was training a girl that day, they knew nothing about vegetarians!! I came out of that office confused. She just refused to listen, which is sad.

[Judy]

Yes, it is sad what most conventional doctors DON'T know about nutricion. They usually don't see a link between the way people eat, their state of mind and disease. And they usually aren't walking examples of glowing health either. Go to a hospital and see what food is served there, it is terrible! Unfortunately, they themselves don't know any better. They probably do the best they can in their own way. Like we do... It's not that we know it all!
I guess, keeping your calm and being a living example is the best you can do. You can explain calmly what your diet is about, if people are interested and ask about it that is, and without trying to convert them. Just as long as you feel right on your diet, that's what counts.

(I'm talking to myself here by the way to remind myself about what's really important, namely, keeping a sense of peace and doing what's right for ME... Especially after feeling attacked, irritated and hurt myself the other day by my own family... Yes Judy, this is a note to self: to your own self be true... Better listen to it! :)).

[dreamrawalwz]

Thanks for your responses! Maybe I shouldn't have had carried the conversation as far as I did, but I tell you that was a first. I ALWAYS get put down and never stick up for myself. I'm trying to learn to do that the one time I try it gets backfired I guess. Yes, maybe it felt to her I was attacking her side, but really didn't mean to. I just won't bring raw or any food subjects up around her again. Yea, she said she was studing sports medacine and something else so that's why she knew it all. Uhh? That's not even specifically nutrition classes (which don't help anyway lol). Another thing is...she's pregnent (going with the OB/GYN response here). I actually didn't say what she was eating was "wrong" i don't think (can't completely remember), but I just remember pointing to the green beans and saying thiey shouldn't be that color. Oh well, if anyone else is interested I'll let them come to me.

My therapist is interested though. I said I don't have cooked foods, meats, ect. and she's like "well that's healthy!" I was worried what she would say considereing my circumstances. Now, in ther office she asked 20 questions about it so I got my little RAW attitude lol so I think I did the same thing to her :( I need to stop that! I'm just so passionate and wish to help all around me. Now that I think about it, same thing happens with my parents! GRR. :eek:

[DavidZaneMason]

You've got a great heart. Remember: the best thing you can do for those around is be joyful and successful. People don't need theoretical knowledge...they need a working example.

-David Mason

[Judy]

You've got a great heart. Remember: the best thing you can do for those around is be joyful and successful. People don't need theoretical knowledge...they need a working example.

-David Mason
Ah, our 'Davamazin' speaks. That's wonderfully said.

[lissomllama]

Some people truly are not in the know about matters of nutrition but I believe that deep down, we all know that this is the right way to eat but people simply don't want to make sacrifices for health, even if that sacrifice is something as small as taste and they experience so many better things because of it. The bottom line is that people generally don't like it when someone challenges their beliefs (especially if they think you might be right) because that makes them feel threatened and they start to wonder if they might be wrong. When we come along and tear down the foundation of lies that 'healthcare' and 'nutrition' were built on, people get scared, so they lash out at the bringer of knowlege. Just continue shining on with your perfect raw health and they will all see. This movement is growing and soon everyone will see.

[madmel]

I try to take conversations like these really easy, otherwise you might end up in a verbal fight...

I have my beliefs, which others might find wrong.
Others have their beliefs, which I might find wrong.

mel

[luckitri]

I've been noticing that civilized conversation and exchange of information is not common these days. People do feel the need to go into attack mode - I need to learn to shut down when they do that and not exhaust myself trying to engage on that level. I need to quickly realize what is happening and not get caught up into their negative emotion. You have shown me that you have a wealth of information on the topic of raw to share with those that are interested. I suppose it goes back to why people choose to become raw. If you are feeling fine why change anything?

[Tirza]

Hehe, my sister actually takes canned green beans and then cooks them over the stove for half an hour as she fixes the rest of the dinner......

Yeah, that is sad. But I can remember doing the same thing because I was so freaked out after hearing of a family who all died of botulism poisoning from eating tainted canned beans. The word is that if you boil canned vegetables for at least 20 minutes, the botulism will be killed. Maybe that is what she is doing.

What is really sad about that is that people actually get these canned veggies when they could so easily get fresh, even if they are going to cook them. At least that way there might be a little more of the nutrients left in them and you wouldn't have the risk of poisoning.

[seasidedaisy]

I know how it feels to feel like you are being attacked. I felt this way for many years. I was into "healthfood" way before it became the thing to do.
My family thought I was crazy, schoolmates said I ate bird food.
My brothers kids are sickly so he got into "healthfood" and now homeschools ... like I did
My other brother is growing an organic apple orchard. Because he can make more money with organic ... still it's a start
My own children grew up thinking healthfood was scary as my mom and dad would give them SAD and all the junk they wanted. Things have changed and they eat much better and often tell me I was right.

Now 20 years later my family comes to me with their health issues. Some are thinking of fasting and cleansing .. woohoo It's been a long road to haul but I stuck to my guns.

[Spectatrix]

FYI, eating fruits and veggies doesn't cut down on any steps in protein digestion. The amino acids in those are still bound up in protein (chains of amino acids and peptides) and have to broken down just like animal protein does.

People get concerned about using non-meat foods as a source of protein because most plants have incomplete proteins (low in or lacking one or more essential amino acids) and believe that the protein is therefore inferior or unusable by the human body. Really, no matter what we eat with protein, it gets broken down into its consituent amino acids for the body to then recombine as needed.

[Ariannah]

I've not outed myself as a raw foodist to many people in my non-net associations. If people are at some place ordering their stuff and I either order a salad or nothing at all then I'll just do it. If I am asked why, I'll say I am not too hungry and/or, this looks like something I'd really enjoy eating.

I have posted here before about how I cringe at my food and my eating being the focal point of attention and discussion in any given situation. Next time just say, "I eat this way because it feels good to me", if you are asked.

I have discussed my way of life with people but they have to have shown themselves to be "interested" parties, not people simply looking for ammunition for empty debate.

[chamomile]

I agree with rawandnatural. I don't usually talk about being raw unless I see someone is open to it.
I learned a life lesson about eleven years ago. I would carry my baby is a sling all the time(it was very uncommon back then). Some people would come up to me very angerly and tell me how it can break the babies back, how his neck hurts in that position(people said this while he was sleeping!!), or other stupid things. At first I answered back, politly than sarcasticly, than I just learned to be quiet. I didn't understand why they would say these things. But I eventually realized that these comments stem from two sources. One, this is different than they are used to, and truelly want to help. Two, they see me holding my baby and deep,deep, deep down they feel they should be doing that. But they aren't. So when they yell at me they are trying to quiet their own inner voice. They feel guilty that they don't/didn't hold their baby. So they yell, inorder to quiet that inner voice. It has nothing to do with me or my baby. It's their issue.
Same with food. People see us eating healthy, and feel guilty that they aren't. Deep, deep down they know eating fruit and veg is the best way. But they aren't there yet. They don't want to hear those inner voices, so they yell, and attack. But it's not really against you(even though it feels like it is), it's against their own inner voices.
Be strong. Don't try to convince anyone that isn't open to the idea. Its not worth all the effort.