I think it's time for some input

[twinyoga]

Ok, I'm getting a weeeee bit discouraged and trying not to.

It's been a year since I went raw. I probably can count less than 30 days that I had cooked food. But many days where I've questioned what I do. When I'm well rested, confident and balanced...I'm all raw and no turning back. I love it. When I'm tired, unbalanced and insecure...I question this whole thing and wonder if I'm just nuts.

So, the last couple days I've been so insecure and unbalanced (not sure why, I'm working on that). I was doing 8/1/1 and loved it for a week, and was 100% before that, but I just crashed and though I'm not eating "junk" food, my body is definetly thinking that cooked food is "junk" food right now. I nibbled on some popcorn today (organic, air popped), I nibbled on some sprouted bread, some peanut butter, some beans and some rice cakes. I felt so ill afterwards. So, so, so ill. My heart was racing, my stomach ached and I just wanted to curl up in a ball.

Not that all of you aren't fabulous, I just feel so unstable. So, I'm sipping on my cleansing tea, haven't eaten since 5pm and going to bed. Just trying to ride this out. I really never saw this coming. I was going so strong. Hmmmm.

[Coriander74]

BIG HUGS Debbie... I understand where you're coming from... sometimes you just get kind of stuck.

You're not alone ok? You can e-mail me anytime, since I shut down my AIM thingie... my e-mail is coriander74@hotmail.com. This is a rough patch you're going through, all of us have them. You know you have it in you to fight back and reach out towards your goals again. Being sick is no fun, especially when we get sick at our own expense.

Hang in there ok?

[fiddler]

Twinyoga,

I'll try and share my story with you because I believe my situation may be very similar to yours as I went totally raw last year too. I also have had about a couple dozen days where I ate cooked and that has been in the last several months. The first 6 months were totally raw.

I have had periods of doubt too. For example, why am I doing this? Can't I just eat a few cooked meals? Etc...

But, the times I did eat cooked my stomach ached, my sinuses got clogged and felt bad and my cravings increased dramatically. Plus, I got so thirsty and had to drink tons of water. The weight started coming back on too. Plus, I had a gout attack after some cooked food episodes.

So, I continue on my RAW journey because for me there is just NO going back. It is too painful for me to eat cooked food now that I've been somewhat cleaned out with a RAW diet. So, on and on I go with my RAW journey. I'm striving now to eat more along 811rv because that seems to work best for me right now and also what appears to be the most reasonable approach, imho.

No doubt in my mind that eating a low-fat raw vegan diet is the most optimal diet. It is difficult to tackle emotional situations without the numbing cooked food --- but to me that is the only down side of RAW if you want to even call it that. We just have to learn to tackle our emotions, I guess without the numbing effect of cooked food.

Did you notice when you ate the cooked food over this past year that you could feel the "calming/numbing" sensation all over your body. To me, that really freaked me out the first time I ate cooked food after being raw for six months...

1. Are you getting enough calories?
When I'm lacking in calories, I get tired and have self-doubt. Banana smoothies (Just bananas blended with water) work wonders on knocking out my self-doubt and emotional charges.

2. Are you getting enough sleep?
If you'd rather roll-over than roll-out, then you should give yourself more sleep if at all possible.

3. Are you getting enough sunshine?

4. Are you exercising daily?

5. Other stresses?

Anyway, please excuse my above ramblings. Just trying to dump out my experiences in case they may be of some benefit to you. I'm still learning to try and live this lifestyle. Lots of challenges and rewards :)

Wishing you well on your continued success,
Fiddler

[Lay-Lay]

I know how you feel. This month is my 3 year raw anniversary since I began my journey. In between I had many 100% days, but lots of factors got in my way of going at it for life. Don't be so hard on yourself. It is a journey and no journey is without a few rocks in the road, right?

[Graciebeliever]

Ok, I'm getting a weeeee bit discouraged and trying not to.

It's been a year since I went raw. I probably can count less than 30 days that I had cooked food. But many days where I've questioned what I do. When I'm well rested, confident and balanced...I'm all raw and no turning back. I love it. When I'm tired, unbalanced and insecure...I question this whole thing and wonder if I'm just nuts.

So, the last couple days I've been so insecure and unbalanced (not sure why, I'm working on that). I was doing 8/1/1 and loved it for a week, and was 100% before that, but I just crashed and though I'm not eating "junk" food, my body is definetly thinking that cooked food is "junk" food right now. I nibbled on some popcorn today (organic, air popped), I nibbled on some sprouted bread, some peanut butter, some beans and some rice cakes. I felt so ill afterwards. So, so, so ill. My heart was racing, my stomach ached and I just wanted to curl up in a ball.

Not that all of you aren't fabulous, I just feel so unstable. So, I'm sipping on my cleansing tea, haven't eaten since 5pm and going to bed. Just trying to ride this out. I really never saw this coming. I was going so strong. Hmmmm.

Um first of all you are a MOM X 2! That explains a great deal.

One thing that I have seen in the short time I have been here is something that I saw lacking with some people. Although we all do the right thing by eating right, Lots of us do NOT take extra good care of ourselves in other ways.

You seem like a very active person that gives a lot to your family. Sometimes you need to stop and do something that is just for you.

There could be a lot of reasons why this happened but whatever the reason, your body is telling you, Be SO SO extra good to yourself. Get a babysitter, take a bubble bath, have a massage, have your man hug and hold you and keep the world away for a while, do whatever YOU need to regain your balance and joy.

I will be thinking about you and hoping that sleep will bring rest and rejuvination to you.

[yeahbethany]

Ok, I'm getting a weeeee bit discouraged and trying not to.

It's been a year since I went raw. I probably can count less than 30 days that I had cooked food. But many days where I've questioned what I do. When I'm well rested, confident and balanced...I'm all raw and no turning back. I love it. When I'm tired, unbalanced and insecure...I question this whole thing and wonder if I'm just nuts.

So, the last couple days I've been so insecure and unbalanced (not sure why, I'm working on that). I was doing 8/1/1 and loved it for a week, and was 100% before that, but I just crashed and though I'm not eating "junk" food, my body is definetly thinking that cooked food is "junk" food right now. I nibbled on some popcorn today (organic, air popped), I nibbled on some sprouted bread, some peanut butter, some beans and some rice cakes. I felt so ill afterwards. So, so, so ill. My heart was racing, my stomach ached and I just wanted to curl up in a ball.

Not that all of you aren't fabulous, I just feel so unstable. So, I'm sipping on my cleansing tea, haven't eaten since 5pm and going to bed. Just trying to ride this out. I really never saw this coming. I was going so strong. Hmmmm.


Hi Twinyoga,
I'd love to chime in here, and I hope this is helpful for you to read.

I was in the exact same place as you, about 9 months ago. No kidding. I had been all raw for over a year and a half, and really wanted to try 811rv, as I believed (and still do) that it was the healthiest way to eat. However, it was a really hard shift for me. Giving up salt, spices, etc was REALLY rough. By September, I was craving cooked food like crazy. The only thing that kept me from breaking down was the fact that I was going to run my first marathon on October 9, and I didn't want to make myself sick for it. Eventually, I did break down two weeks before the marathon. I was sick for a couple of days. My heart was racing, and I felt more thirsty than I had ever felt in my life that night. For the next few days afterwards, I just felt "blah." In fact, I just did a search for a post I did that week. You can read the thread here: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6819 It sounds pretty much the same as yours. =)

After the marathon, I decided to eat some cooked food sometimes. The amount of cooked in my diet gradually increased. I decided that 811 was too restrictive. Eventually, by February 2006, I had started even eating junk food.

By March, I hated the way I felt on cooked food. I hated the way I looked on cooked food (put on 20 pounds!). I hated the way my voice sounded (not as clear and melodious). So, in the middle of March, I came back to raw. I still strongly felt (and still do!) that natural hygiene/811 is the healthiest way for us to be, and having experienced the flip side, I was much more psychologically prepared to take on the challenge this time. I was able to give up salt fairly easily. I got pretty close to 811, but still ate too much fat on some days. My energy level was lower than I would have liked to be, and I was a bit stuck on losing some excess weight (that I've carried with me my whole adult life). These lingering challenges convinced me that perhaps I need some help to overcome these hurdles. I've been consulting with Dr. Graham for almost 2 weeks now, and its really making all the difference. He's already given me some tools to get myself out of the rut of my behavior patterns, and my body is definitely cleaning house, but in the past two weeks, I've gotten closer to my goals than I have in over a year of trying by myself. I couldn't be more pleased with this.

So....sorry for the long, rambling post. My point? I've been there. I want you to know that you are not alone. 811 is hard, emotionally. Most of us, even if we know all about it, and have done all the reading on the practicalities of 811, are not ready to deal with it emotionally. I think I read someone describe it on another board as "it decreases your b.s. barrier." I found it hard to give up salt, stimulants, fats, etc. I'm pretty sure Alissa wrote at some point that she has seen many raw fooders "doing fine," then try this program and get so frustrated with it that they go back to cooked. There came a point where I gave up totally and went back to cooked, and it wasn't until I was truly ready for this that I was able to come back. And there came a point where I sort of got stuck in my own transition to the point where I needed some help and new ideas. And, with help, I realized that I really wasn't doing it as well as I could have been, and that is where some challenges arose...

More to share on this later. I'd be happy to talk more about some of the insights I've had on this lately. Feel free to ask any questions you'd like.

And, feel better, Twinyoga! =) I hope knowing that you are not alone is helpful to you...

-Bethany =)

[DavidZaneMason]

-Don't talk yourself out of your dreams. Just be honest and set realistic goals. If you fail...set smaller goals. The only true failure is the failure to try. You cannot always control outside circumstance.....only the level of your own giving. :)

-David Mason

[Sharon in Colorado]

Like Bethany I agree that the 811 may have caused sudden cravings. And like Fiddler, if you weren't getting enough calories it could also have triggered the cooked food cravings as wel. Because maybe you were thinking you should eat some healthy low fat cooked instead of some kind of high-fat raw concoction. It is hard to determine which is a better choice.

Even Dr. Graham says most people can't just jump from point a to point b right away. You should take your time getting there.

By the way, I totally believe that this type of diet is healthy and can only benefit a person who does it correctly. I have only done it for short periods of time too. It is just something that maybe not everyone can jump into and stick with, especially if, as Bethany mentioned, they are giving up a lot of stimulants like salts and spices as well as drastically reduce the intake of fat all at once.

I think if you ate less than 30 days cooked within a year that is definately progress! Just keep moving forward - it is a process but you are doing great!

[twinyoga]

Thanks, everyone. I'm really riding this out and just observing.

Your comments are so great. Right now I'm taking a break from food and just sipping water for 24 hours. I stopped eating early yesterday, so I slept through the worst part of the fast (for me!).

Being a "yogi" I have lots of friends who practice ayurveda. So I read books on that subject last night.

Whether I get enough calories I don't know. According to fit day I get probably about 800-1200 on 8/1/1 and maybe about 1200-1500 on regular raw. I so want to lose weight and I just don't know what my body needs in calories.

I have thrived on cooked foods (whole foods that are cooked, lots of raw) in the past, and I have been doing raw for a year with some ups and downs. I gotta listen to my body for a while. Even if that means experimenting a bit. And, like Bethany, I know raw is fabulous and an ultimate goal. I'm so glad I have an appointment with my holistic doc next week. :)

Gotta get the twin's dressed. Thank's again. I'll keep you posted.

Oh, and yes, of course I need more sleep and time for myself, but I'm a Mom of twins! :)

[yeahbethany]

TwinYoga,

You are definitely not getting enough calories. I don't know how tall you are, or how much you weigh, or how active you are, but I would assume you need at least 1800-2200 calories. The exact numbers will depend on a lot of factors.

What have you read/heard about 811? I think it really does take a knowledge base to "do it right", and even with that base, I'm really benefiting from individual guidance.

A good place for you to go is this message board:

http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/index.html

Dr. Graham answers many of the questions that newbies have on this board. Searching the archives might be good. He has said there numerous times that one of the reasons people have cravings for starches, cooked foods, etc, is not getting enough calories from fruit. This was one of my problems, to be sure.

To get more calories.....bananas, bananas, bananas will help.

I'm glad you are taking a rest today. How are you feeling?

-Bethany

[blessed]

I was just eating some avocadoes,lettuce,peppers, one time a day. I just wasn't hungry and i started feeling sick, a real bad headache, like a tight band was around my head, dizzy and tingling in my arms and hands and the bottom of my feet.
Thanks to our friends here i looked into "low blood sugar" and got some herbal tablets for it.
My husband had some cooked chickpeas, i've given them up but he told me i needed to add some cooked foods to my diet because i wasn't eating enough.
I considered it but last night i ate some kale with sliced avocado and smal sliced yellow squash and today i'm feeling better.
Yes, the temptation was there but i didn't give in, i have in the past but don't feel bad it's easy to think that cooked food will save us during difficult times.
Hang in there, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ann :D

[Ariannah]

After the marathon, I decided to eat some cooked food sometimes. The amount of cooked in my diet gradually increased. I decided that 811 was too restrictive. Eventually, by February 2006, I had started even eating junk food.

That completely is like I was by February.


By March, I hated the way I felt on cooked food. I hated the way I looked on cooked food (put on 20 pounds!). I hated the way my voice sounded (not as clear and melodious). So, in the middle of March, I came back to raw.

It took me a lot longer to come back and I gained slightly more than 20, but how I feel on raw is just beyond compare for me.

[yeahbethany]

You said it, Rawandnatural!

I look at photos of me last summer (simple raw) compared with Christmas, and I think "what was I THINKING?" "Why did I do that to myself?"

Hopefully I'll have some new photos soon!

[Pailani]

So, then, maybe trying for 8/1/1 is risky and should be attempted only with extreme caution and if you have the means to get personal counseling from a professional?

Rawnora says that you shouldn't ever think you're going to stay in the same place you're at right now, that transition is only a temporary thing, and eventually you get to more optimal eating, which seems to me to be something like 8/1/1. But then, people who actually attempt 8/1/1 crash and give up the raw diet altogether, so maybe being stuck in transition indefinitely eating salt, spices and fats isn't a bad idea??

[fiddler]

So, then, maybe trying for 8/1/1 is risky and should be attempted only with extreme caution and if you have the means to get personal counseling from a professional?

Rawnora says that you shouldn't ever think you're going to stay in the same place you're at right now, that transition is only a temporary thing, and eventually you get to more optimal eating, which seems to me to be something like 8/1/1. But then, people who actually attempt 8/1/1 crash and give up the raw diet altogether, so maybe being stuck in transition indefinitely eating salt, spices and fats isn't a bad idea??

If we undereat calories on any diet we're going to have some challenges. I don't think 811 is risky at all. However, I do think one really needs to read and understand the program. The program is laid out really well on Doug's site www.foodnsport.com (http://www.foodnsport.com) and also in the discussions on www.vegsource.com (http://www.vegsource.com)
Stretch but don't tear. Strive to eat optimally and live to the fullest... :)

BTW, I picked up 2 cases (36 count each) of ripe, organic apricots from a distributor on the discounted truck for $1.00 each. That's less than $.03 cents an apricot! Downed a dozen or so of 'em just now! Looks like I'll be eating lots of apricots today and tomorrow :)

Cheers,
Fiddler

[yeahbethany]

So, then, maybe trying for 8/1/1 is risky and should be attempted only with extreme caution and if you have the means to get personal counseling from a professional?

Rawnora says that you shouldn't ever think you're going to stay in the same place you're at right now, that transition is only a temporary thing, and eventually you get to more optimal eating, which seems to me to be something like 8/1/1. But then, people who actually attempt 8/1/1 crash and give up the raw diet altogether, so maybe being stuck in transition indefinitely eating salt, spices and fats isn't a bad idea??

That's an interesting question, isn't it, Pailani? One without easy answers, for sure.

I wouldn't like to think that one must have the means for personal counseling in order to succeed. But there are things to think about. I think a lot of us hear about 8/1/1 raw vegan, and hear the very convincing arguments for why it is the healthiest way to live, and say "I'll start now!" Whereas, in reality, maybe it should take a year, or two, or five to get there, depending on where we are when we start? I know that for myself, I did not really know how to get from point a to point b, so I jumped, held on by my fingers for a while, and then slid down, down, down. So when I was ready to try again, I had to learn to build a bridge, and that's where the personal counseling came in. After a while, I ran out of bridge ideas, and I'm afraid of heights, so I needed someone to help and cheer me on.

But, the important thing is...I got back up and tried again. Yes, I went back to cooked for a while. But I came back more emotionally ready than I was before. So, am I sorry I went back to cooked? No. I did what I needed to do at the time. Would it have been healthier for me to stay "gourmet raw" and never try to eat simpler? Perhaps not, especially if I learn habits that will stick more firmly. =). But I'd imagine that some people, when they go back to cooked, never want to come back to raw (even with salt, spices, and fats). Maybe they are eating worse than if they went back to gourmet raw. Do we know what is going to happen to us if we try? No. So it is risky. Should we sometimes take risks for things that are worth it? That is for the individual to decide. =) For me, I think it was, but then again, I'm certainly still on the journey here. I can't say it is worth it for the person who ends up eating worse than they were when they started. That is for them to determine. =)

By the way, maybe Gosia would care to chime in? =) She has such a beautiful approach to this - and firmly believes that these shifts should happen naturally, when one is ready for them, and not as a result of following any set of rules. I really admire that. Her website is www.rawgosia.com.

Oh, and incidentally - some thoughts about "having the means for personal counseling" - I thought this was "beyond my means" for a long time. Again, the only reason I "resorted" to it was that I was really stuck, and needed some help "building a bridge." But, for me at least, I had been mostly eating juicy fruits, and that got REALLY EXPENSIVE to buy enough to fill me up/provide enough calories. Turns out, it didn't really provide enough calories, which is why I was having so much trouble and struggling so much. I ate bananas a couple times a week before, but they were, by no means, a staple of my diet. But the tools Dr. Graham has given me really helped me learn to like bananas, and to rely on them as a staple. In the past two weeks, I've saved SO MUCH MONEY over the way I was eating before. Also, I'm a lot more satisfied with what I have. In the past, if I was craving, say, peaches, I felt a compulsion to buy them, even if I had some perfectly good fruit in the house that I could have eaten instead. So, not only did I buy the peaches (which were probably expensive), but I wasted the fruit in the house that would end up going bad. Now, I don't feel a compulsion to run to the store and buy things. I feel much more satisfied with what I have. Again, I am saving SO MUCH MONEY. I imagine that, from the amount of money I am saving, this consult will certainly pay for itself in 3 weeks time (or even sooner!), and SAVE me money in the long run. I NEVER would have imagined this. Just food for thought about "having the means."

Still, no easy answers...

[fiddler]

But the tools Dr. Graham has given me really helped me learn to like bananas, and to rely on them as a staple.
Bethany, would you be willing to share some of the tools that Graham provided? I've got a couple of his books and DVD's and am always willing to hear more from Doug.

I like the idea of bananas as a staple. Lots of calories and nutrients and they taste great!

Thanks for posting -- very helpful.

Cheers,
Fiddler

[Rawkinlocs]

I just wanted to say that I really admire those of you who have "arrived" at the point of being satisfied with eating more simply.

I wish to get there someday because I think that would just be the ultimate freedom in eating...to be able to eat simple, whole foods and enjoy the natural flavors of food without "needing" to add salt, spices, oils, etc., no preparation, no fuss...and to actually feel satiated eating those things. Right now, yes I LOVE some foods in their natural state, but not all, especially veggies. But even after a while, I start longing for something "more"...heavier, saltier, more savory and sometimes raw meals "hit the spot" and other times they don't and then that's when I start wandering off into unchartered waters if you know what I mean.

But I also appreciate that these things come in time and "going back" doesn't always mean STAYING there. Gil, Bethany and others such as Gosia, Nora and Audrey et al...your stories truly inspire me when I read about you growing into the place you are now. Thanks for sharing!

[yeahbethany]

Bethany, would you be willing to share some of the tools that Graham provided? I've got a couple of his books and DVD's and am always willing to hear more from Doug.

I like the idea of bananas as a staple. Lots of calories and nutrients and they taste great!

Thanks for posting -- very helpful.

Cheers,
Fiddler

Sure, Gil. I can share this. This advice was tailored to my situation, so it may not work for everyone in all situations, so it may not really be "tools", per se. As in, please don't try this if it doesn't seem to apply to you! =) This is not meant to be a prescription in any way. =) By the way, Gil, I love your website!

Well...here goes...

After going over a complete health history for me, the first thing Doug told me was to buy a case of bananas, and another one 4 days later. I was to eat nothing but bananas for a week, as many/as often as I wanted (whole, or blended with water, if I wanted). I was to e-mail him every day with how many bananas I ate, how many times I urinated (this shows how hydrated you are), how I felt physically, how I felt emotionally, etc. He would "hold my hand" daily for the at least the first four weeks, and each week, make suggestions that would slightly widen my food choices.

My biggest fear was that I would get sick of eating bananas and never want to see another banana in my life. =) After all, I only ate bananas maybe 2 or three times a week, at the time (in the summer).

I found the week very beneficial though - it helped me learn to like bananas (the opposite of what I expected), and it helped me learn to like eating simply. Also, I saved a TON of money that week. =)

The second week, he told me to make a couple minor changes: if I want to have a different fruit, have it for my breakfast meal. And, if at any point during the day, I wanted to have some celery, I should feel free to do so. It was during this week that I noticed I was happy to eat what I had on hand. I used to feel compelled to buy whatever I was craving, even if I had plenty of other food around. Now, I don't feel like I have to go out and "buy whatever it is I'm craving, NOW!" I feel like it can certainly wait until I've finished all of these yummy grapes that I have. =) It's VERY freeing.

Anyway, I'm toward the end of the second week now, so I can't tell you what is in store next week, yet =).

By the way, I should mention that this daily follow-up was all included in the price of the consult, so all in all, I'm totally satisfied with everything so far.

Hope this helps. Have a great afternoon!

[yeahbethany]

I just wanted to say that I really admire those of you who have "arrived" at the point of being satisfied with eating more simply.

But I also appreciate that these things come in time and "going back" doesn't always mean STAYING there. Gil, Bethany and others such as Gosia, Nora and Audrey et al...your stories truly inspire me when I read about you growing into the place you are now. Thanks for sharing!

Hi Rawkinlocs,
I'm really glad our posts are helpful to you. Thank you so much for the admiration... :) But, I do feel like I'm still on the journey.

I admire everyone here for their pursuit of their goals, wherever they may be along the way.

-Bethany

[fiddler]

Bethany,

Thanks so much for sharing Doug's approach with us. I too have gone days with eating just bananas and amazingly enough had not grown tired of them :) I bought a case of organic bananas today and they're downstairs in my basement ripening while I consume the rest of my ripe ones. I keep them in a cool place inside the case until they ripen. I like to always have bananas available -- they're definitely my main staple.

Its so great to hear the content from an actual consultation with Doug; he's one of my heroes. Some day I'd like to meet him at one of his health retreats.

BTW, yesterday I ate a whole large seedless watermelon. And a couple banana smoothies. Very convenient :)

Thanks again for sharing Bethany! You're an inspiration.

Wishing you well on your journey,
Fiddler

[Pailani]

I'm really glad our posts are helpful to you. Thank you so much for the admiration... :) But, I do feel like I'm still on the journey.

I like posts from people who have been at this for a while. Since I'm looking at this long term, I feel like it gives me a glimpse of what might be in my own future, and what kind of challenges I may have ahead.

[yeahbethany]

You're a lot wiser than I am, Pailani...I used to think that I would NEVER fall off the wagon! =) I mean, I was on for close to 2 years...

Fiddler, I'm glad you found the description of the consult helpful. =) And yes, eating this way is sooooooo convenient. No mess, clean-up is a snap! I'll need to start buying bananas by the case though - maybe I'll be able to get a better deal on them. I'm just not sure I'll go through a whole case in a week!

TwinYoga, how are you feeling today?

[twinyoga]

Much better, thanks. I'm enjoying reading all of this information.

I feel much more balanced today. I am not 100% raw, though. Just listening and learning. There's no rush.

[yeahbethany]

I'm glad you are feeling better today. Listening and learning is good. Indeed, no rush at all. =)

Have a good evening, everyone!

[chilove]

Hi Debbie,

I'm glad you are feeling better now! I just wanted to add that I agree with Bethany that you weren't eating enough and to not push yourself or blame yourself. Make changes as they feel emotionally comfortable to you and/or as your body prompts you to. Going and staying raw is such a great opportunity for us to learn about ourselves and our bodies. It truely is a journey!


Take care,

Audrey
www.rawhealing.com

[Sharon in Colorado]

Thanks for the info Bethany. I found it really helpful myself. I have always wanted to do a consult with Dr. Graham. I'm one of those who desires to do the 811 but have a challenge getting all my ducks in a row! :)

[yeahbethany]

I'm glad it was helpful info, Sharon! It's good to know that others are in the same boat as I am. =)

[twinyoga]

Here's an update on me. Believe it or not, I'm eating cooked foods and doing it intentionally. I'm observing everything good and bad about it.

I'm making brown rice, steamed tofu, even some macrobiotic cookies. I even had some challah.

This is how I feel: very thirsty, a little more bloated than usual, much calmer, sleeping well, and my "movements" and more solid, I get very uncomfortably full with just a cupful of food. So, as you can see I'm seeing good and bad. Do I miss raw, yes. I miss the "lightness" and I hate the thirst I always feel. But I love the more balanced feeling I have...not so tempermental.

Am I going back to raw? I hope to, really. And I love 8/1/1. It's hard to explain what I'm doing and I don't recommend it for everyone...it's like I just have to experiment and see what really is working for me.

I am eating only fruit or fresh juice for breakfast, also.


I would love any thoughts and comments.

[yeahbethany]

Debbie, I did the same as you were doing...and enjoyed it while it lasted. =) I'm glad you are feeling more balanced. If and when you are ready to go back to all raw, you will, and in the meantime, do what is right for you.

Hope you are enjoying the weekend,
Bethany

[Pailani]

I did that, too - I'd have a smoothie for breakfast and another for lunch, and then I'd have something healthy for dinner. I did this for a few months. While I did that, my bloating that I had while raw went away, but I was always craving food. And then I started feeling more lack of energy and my immune system seemed weaker. In my case, it didn't work, and I knew it wasn't working. But it took months to get back to eating totally raw.

[greeninlosangeles]

So how many bananas did you eat per day and how did you feel?

[twinyoga]

Ok, just came back from a lovely dinner with friends. I had about 50% raw at the dinner.

Following are my observations...
Eating cooked food has:

made me feel a little calmer/more balanced

made me extremely thirsty

made me feel ill after some meals (my heart would race after eating a cooked meal and I wanted to bring it all back up)

retain lots of water (my rings are tight)

made me a little more flexible with my children's diet (with the wrong foods), I've allowed them to eat more "junk" food

So, these are my observations so far. I'm thinking about raw foods right now....:)

[twinyoga]

I was just re-reading this thread. I believe I had my last cooked food this evening. I am bloated, constipated and feel "greasy". I thought the grass was greener in the cooked world, now I realize it just seems that way. I tried it and I had enough.

I'm still a strong advocate of 8/1/1/ and would like to go right back into that. I'm a little scared, but one week of cooked foods has been enough. What a challenge!

Thanks, again for sharing so much information.

[luvnraw]

TwinYoga ~ I know for me 8/1/1 all of the time does seem to lead me to cooked food binges easier when I am under major stress for awhile......maybe you could do 8/1/1 for 4 or 5 days a week, or even start with 3 and work your way up to find what ratio's feel better for you? Hope you feel better soon! ;)

[fiddler]

I was just re-reading this thread. I believe I had my last cooked food this evening. I am bloated, constipated and feel "greasy". I thought the grass was greener in the cooked world, now I realize it just seems that way. I tried it and I had enough.

I'm still a strong advocate of 8/1/1/ and would like to go right back into that. I'm a little scared, but one week of cooked foods has been enough. What a challenge!

Thanks, again for sharing so much information.
Hi Debbie,

Agreed, the grass is definitely not greener on the other side of the fence. I went through similar trials recently and definitely realized I just CAN'T go back to cooked -- its just too painful. Sometimes we have to hop the fence to see for ourselves :)

Good luck on your journey and happy 811rv'ing,
Fiddler

[fiddler]

Twinyoga,

Here's an addendum to my last post.

I'm tracking my food intake into www.livingcookbook.com (http://www.livingcookbook.com) software to track my 80/10/10 ratios and to make sure I'm getting the calories. I'm also making note of how I feel each day in terms of cravings, energy levels, moods. Doing this has helped me understand my 811rv approach. If you're not already journaling your food and notes, you might wish to consider such an approach.

Also, sounds like Bethany is having great success with the consult from Doug Graham so that might be an option too.

Anyway, hope some of this helps,
Fiddler

[Sharon in Colorado]

So I just picked up a case of nanas and I'm procrastinating about going on my banana diet, lol.

[sosiesmom]

Hey all,

Debbie, it's been so interesting to hear about your visit to the land of the cooked! The last few days I've been off raw for real. I've had some popcorn and some breadsticks and a few bites of rice here and there. I'm not wanting raw right now, or cooked. I am simply feeling nauseated and I think the cooked slows down those detox symptoms for me. I plan to return to raw 100% gradually over the next few days.

I looked into 8/1/1 and it seems like it does work for some people. The only thing I thought in relation to your experience with 8/1/1 and then wanting cooked is that you were not getting enough calories. For someone like you who exercises as much as you do (not to mention all the mommy-calories you burn!) you may have been starving your body. Just my two cents...I look forward to reading Graham's book this fall- his website is not user-friendly, in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

[Gosia]

twinyoga, may I share my approach to raw foods and other matters with you here?

In my view, all experience is good, and there is no need to get upset about anything. There is no need to put oneself down or restrict oneself in any way. Let yourself free to experience whatever your spirit wants. Let yourself experience feeling bad after eating cooked and then perhaps decide that you may prefer being raw, without any judgement.

The most helpful realization of my life was this:
Only if the choice is truly YOURS (rather than coming from the point of feeling gulity when you do not do what you are expected to do) then your path will be EFFORTLESS.
Realizing this has helped me so much in my journey, not only in the sense of my diet, but in a larger sense.

When I once decided to become a Christian, I used to beat up myself for not being good enough. After several years of ups and downs, and deep unhappiness, I finally decided that enough is enough. I decided that I was going to discover what I wanted to be, not what I was supposed to be. I decided to reject all the rules and instead, observe the world and how I felt, and make my decisions based on that. Several months after my decision, I found myself in a state of bliss! Moreover, I was behaving in a way that once, as a Christian, I thought I should, effortlessly! How on earth did that happen? I realized that once I let my spirit free it went where it wanted to go, without me having to do anything at all, apart from intensely observing the world and my thoughts and feelings.

There is no need to put a human in a cage of rules to follow, no matter how perfect or right they might seem. A human has the ability to arrive at the place of perfect harmony as long as he/she is fully aware.

The raw food diet is not exception here. There is no need to try to be raw, there is no need to try to avoid eating cooked, there is no need to try to follow any system of rules. As long as one intensely observes one's body, a spontaneous transition in the right direction will occur. For example, when I ate unripe fruit, I realized that doing so was leaving me starving. I learned that eating ripe fruit is best. I could have learned this rule by reading a book, and try to follow it without understanding it. Some other time, I tried a little bit of coffee and had a disturbed sleep after that. After doing this a few times, I learned I do not want it anymore, because I hate being sleepless and tired afterwards. In a similar way, by merely observing my body and allowing for gradual changes, my diet spontaneously progressed to high-fruit diet. I am still in transition. I still make mistakes and learn from them. My dietary and lifestyle patterns are still developing. I still have cooked food desires or even relapses. But this is getting rarer and rarer, and staying raw is easier and easier. And, I have made a big progress! We got rid of the stove from the kitchen. My kids are finally all-raw. I now have the courage to ask people at after-hours-school-care not to feed my daughter anything except for fruit (she brings her own foods as well). I LOVE eating fruit in the morning, afternoon and having salads or young coconuts in the evening. All these changes happen because we(my family) or I WANT THEM, not because we think we should. And because of this, they are effortless. I eat what I love because I love eating it, not because I think it is the optimal diet.

My inner self tells me:
Release your self. Be free. Enjoy the journey. Make your own choices whatever they are and do learn from them, but do not beat yourself up for making them. Live your life the way you want to live it. You are on the right path.



Gosia

[luvnraw]

Gosia ~ Wow is all I can say. What you said to Debbie was very profound. I am happy to hear you have less relapses/cravings and still are on this journey. Thank you for sharing *listen to your body*. It sounds simple enough but yet I know it is difficult! When I first started 100% raw last year after doing a detox class (1 week vegan, 1 week raw, 1 week veggie juice) I realized raw felt best for me and actually listened to my body. Then I let myself slip up, kept beating myself up for it and waivering back and forth. I appreciate your honesty and thoughtfulness and the reminder to observe & be aware! That is why I am currently fasting, to get in touch with my inner self and what my body wants/needs and not my head. Thanks for sharing! ;)

[yeahbethany]

I was hoping you'd post here, Gosia. =)

[twinyoga]

Gosia, thank you so much! I read your post and it really means a lot to me.

The truth is, I know I went raw because I thought I'd get super skinny. Well, I probably lost maybe 5lbs. the year I was raw. I followed the "rules" and felt competitive when I heard of other people trying variations on raw (all veggies, fasting, all fruit, etc.).

The last couple weeks, I just got tired of telling myself that I had to eat raw. I wanted my body to tell me what it wants. This is also part of my yoga/meditation practice. Listening to my body instead of making it do something.

Anyway, I've been eating cooked, very similar to a macrobiotic diet (miso soup, brown rice, steamed veggies). And I like it, though I don't feel nearly as clean and light when on a raw diet. But my body isn't ready for all raw again and I know if I told myself to switch back to raw, I would rebel at some point. So, I'm eating the cooked foods (whole foods) and just waiting for my body to guide me.

I'm still hanging around this site, because everyone is so wonderful and I learn a lot. And I still believe that raw foods is just a wonderful diet for many, many people.

Thanks, again.

[Rawkinlocs]

Gosia, that was a POWERFUL post! Loved it, related to it and I thank you for it!

Debbie, you'd BETTER stick around here girlfriend! I mean why wouldn't you? Not everyone here eats ALL raw so while you're eating some cooked (and healthy cooked at that) items, I'm sure you're still eating raw foods as well so what's the problem with you continuing to be here? None whatsoever! So yes, please do stay...there would be no sense in you leaving just because you have incorporated some healthy cooked food into your diet.

[Graciebeliever]

What is here on this site goes beyond eating :)

We should not feel compelled to please everyone, here or anywhere :)

Stay :)

Smile, Laugh, and Learn and be a part of the good people here :)

[luvmyfruit]

I don't post here much, but I do gain some pretty great info from all of you and I just have got to say that posts like this are what keeps this place "real"
Yes I know this is a raw food forum but like anything in life, there are struggles and reading others struggles makes me feel a lot more possitive
Thank you all :D