I am in shock!....

[twinyoga]

I can't believe what I just witnessed.

Being outside all day with my kids, we are taking a rest inside watching Noggin. For those of you not familiar with Noggin, it's a 12 hour (6am-6pm) preschool television station with no commercials. All of Noggin's shows are educational and quite good. Between shows, instead of commercials, they have either music videos, cartoon shorts, or little educational bits. At 4:25pm today, they had an educational show. This is what they did...

They showed a barn being prepared with straw and hay; then they showed thousands of baby turkeys trucked in and put in the barn; then they explained how the temperature was going to be kept at 115 so they are warm as if they were with their mother; then they showed how mechanical feeders fed them supplemented "feed" grains and how they drank water; the narrator explained that they eat and drink all day long; then they show the turkeys three months later fully grown with not even an inch for them to move because they are packed in so tight and how fans keep them cool since they don't like the heat; the narrator explains that they got to full size in just three months; the narrator explains how only one truck brought them in as babies but 18 trucks will have to take them away; then the last line was "see you at Thanksgiving".

Oh my. Oh my. Oh my. I just witnessed everything I am against. Please tell me what you think. I am turning off Noggin ASAP and I am planning on e-mailing Noggin. My children do not need to witness mass production and hormone feeding of turkeys or any other animal.

[dreamrawalwz]

Wow, I'm speachless! It's so sad that they're showing this to children! To me you have to teach the child that animals have feelings. I bet if children realize what they're actually eating when they consume animals, they wouldn't want to eat Mr. cow, pig, or chicken.

[tinystrawberry]

i'm shocked that they even have television for children, i don't think children (or anyone in general) should watch tv at all. it's sad to think that someone would put their child in front of the television for an hour (or three hours, which i've witnessed!) instead of giving them something to do (draw, read, play outside, etc). i guess it's a good way for a mother to rest, but sometimes people just get out of hand. :(

[twinyoga]

Let's not go there...please! I see nothing wrong with educational television. What this thread is about is something totally different. Thank you.

[Rawkinlocs]

Debbie, unfortunately that's not too surprising in this day and age...sad, but not too surprising. Wow..."see you at Thanksgiving"...well, I guess in the eyes of the majority of our society, there's probably not a thing wrong with that message because it's "normal".

Tinystrawberry, while what you say may or may not be true, I don't think Debbie meant for her thread to become a personal (or impersonal) attack on her or others who choose to allow some tv time to their kids or themselves.

I know that's your opinion and you're VERY much entitled to it, but at the same token, keep in mind that there are others who feel just as strongly about people sitting in front of a computer on an online discussion forum for a half-hour or more at a time. ;) We ALL could be doing more constructive/productive things with our time, but it's all about personal choice.

[tinystrawberry]

I wasn't trying to 'attack' anyone, sorry.

[Rawkinlocs]

I understand...maybe "attack" was a strong suggestion...maybe more like 'judge' (?) It just came across with a judgmental tone. Again, I understand your pov because some homes probably DO use television as a babysitter...but either way, the point and theme of this thread was about something altogether different and therefore, it seemed kinda like an attack, for lack of better term.

[Conscious Midwife]

EMAIL the station, then boycott them, unless there is an acknowledgement and a change.

I can't imagine why a childrens show would publicize animal cruelty.

I'm anti TV myself.

Usually let toddlers do a few minutes of sesame street on the 'puter and watch there imagination video every other day.

In a pinch it give me a free hand when i need to cook dinner and don't need them using their creativity coloring on my walls.

[twinyoga]

Thanks rawkinlocs for understanding the post. And tinystrawberry, I didn't take it personally, I just didn't want this thread to go in a different direction.

I did e-mail Noggin and I immediately turned off the t.v. I'll let you know if I get a response.

[juliebove]

That doesn't shock or surprise me. I grew up with farmers on both sides of the family. Great grandparents on one side were dairy farmers, but this was before I was born. I did hear stories about it though.

Grandparents on the other side of the family lived on a farm. By the time I was born, the farm was still functional but mainly just to produce enough food for the family. When my mom was growing up, they did sell eggs and produce on occasion, but I don't think they sold meat of any kind.

As you can imagine, there are things that went on there, things I witnessed as a child that made me want to be a vegetarian. Other family members don't understand this. They're like...this is/was reality. This is what we did/do to survive. And if you were in the same situation, you would do the same. Well, no I would not.

My daughter was born in the city. To her, meat came in plastic packages in the grocery store. It was simply food, like any other. She didn't like it and didn't eat it until she was older. I didn't push her one way or the other to eat it. But what she chose to eat naturally was mainly vegetarian. But then when she was diagnosed with a lot of food allergies, she began eating a bit more meat simply by default. Most of what she ate before she could no longer eat. Now she is older and is beginning to realize what meat is and where it comes from. She doesn't want to eat it. She loves animals.

Now that I think of it, I remember a song she sang that she learned in preschool when we were living in NY. The words were, "Oh I'm glad I'm not a turkey... A turkey... A turkey... Oh I'm glad I'm not a turkey on Thanksgiving day. They'll stuff you and bake you and then they'll all taste you. Oh I'm glad I'm not a turkey on Thanksgiving day!" She loved singing this song for people because it got them to laugh. But even then she didn't understand.

More recently, she did understand. We visited the local feed store (where we live now is kind of farm country although it's getting more citified), and we were watching them unload a shipment of baby chicks. One of them looked different. It was bigger, less tame and a different color. The lady unpacking them told her it was a baby turkey. I could tell that she understood then by the look on her face. She was probably 6 then.

I think it's interesting to see what children understand at various ages. Even though the image you saw in TV seems shocking to you, it probably isn't to a very young child. They might associate turkeys with Thanksgiving but they don't really understand why. My daughter will soon be 8. She can identify amost every fruit and vegetable in the market and even give you the more specific name to it, such as a Granny Smith or Delicious apple. But show her packages of meat and she won't know the difference. The reason being, most of her diet is fruits and vegetables. This is what she spends the most time preparing and eating. You could show her three different packages of meat and she'll refer to them as ham or perhaps chicken. She still doesn't know the difference, because these things aren't much in her reality.

[MangoMommy]

I didn't think stuff like this happened anymore. It does remimd me of when I was a kid. We lived in a rural midwest town and practically each small town had its own slaughterhouse. When my brother was in 3rd grade one of their field trips was a trip to the local slaughtehouse. All those little kids watched the process of a cow getting butchered. They all were standing in a row while they witnessed a cow getting its throat slit from one ear to the other. My brother still lives in this town...I'll have to ask him if they still have field trips to the slaughter house.

When I was much older I talked to many people who worked in these places. I personally talked to a person whose job for 8 hours or more a day, 5 days a week was to cut out "visible" tumors from meat. Yuck!! Chances of tumors not being visible as the meat moved by was highly likely. When there was so many tumors and the meat was basically scraps..that meat was to be made into hotdogs & lunchmeat. Hotdogs anyone??? :eek: :eek:

[Halo Aglow]

Wow, well this makes me realize how open our eyes are towards animal situations like these. This reminds me of the Peta videos but just cotton-padded and sugar-coated.

I'm glad your kids have a mommy like you, TwinYoga! :)

[SijaeintheRaw]

It's amazing what some people will deem appropriate for children. When my cousin was 8 her school went on a field trip to the pig slaughter house and they were close enough to get blood on her coat. It was tremendously traumatizing to her.

I limit TV because my oldest is particularly sensitive and effected by it and I especially try to keep them away from most mainstream cartoons as I can't believe what these people put out there for children to see. Mostly what they watch now is PBS.

Speaking of crazy animal things on TV - I can't stand the tv commercials that advertise meat by using the animal that's going to be eaten - how gross is that? And that Pepsi commercial with the fighting rotisserie chickens made me sick. Why do they think people like that? Am I the only one that thinks it's gross?

Laura

[rawpriestess]

I think that is horrible. Not only to show this, but to allow it, and to think it is normal, to encase all these beatiful creatures into a non-natural environment.


Turkeys, just as any other thing in the world has a right to happiness, and to live it's life among it's friends, and to live outdoors in the beautiful sun shine.

I am so sorry that your children had to see this.

I can remember the first time I realized that meat was the muscles of animals, it really weirded me out for a long time, I was probably 9 or 10, and I never understood where it came from before. it was just a realization, I didn't go to any slaughter house or anything.

Also, I was the ONLY person in my junion high that would not disect a frog, I was in a special science class, and I had to take a different class altogether, if I wouldn't disect this frog, I also was not able to take several other pre-med courses because of that one issue. So, I went on to become who I am today, I wanted to be a doctor for years. LOL, now I would NEVER even go to one. isn't that strange? LOL

[codajess]

I think it's good they show that to kids who eat meat. I think vegetarian/vegan kids shouldn't have to see it. I hope the only parents who are complaining are the ones who are vegetarian/vegan and find it appalling. Not the ones who just don't want their kids to know where their food comes from.

I'm really not wording that as well as I'd like, but you get my point.

[codajess]

I think EVERYONE should have to go to a slaughterhouse and witness a slaughter.

[codajess]

I didn't think stuff like this happened anymore. It does remimd me of when I was a kid. We lived in a rural midwest town and practically each small town had its own slaughterhouse. When my brother was in 3rd grade one of their field trips was a trip to the local slaughtehouse. All those little kids watched the process of a cow getting butchered. They all were standing in a row while they witnessed a cow getting its throat slit from one ear to the other. My brother still lives in this town...I'll have to ask him if they still have field trips to the slaughter house.

When I was much older I talked to many people who worked in these places. I personally talked to a person whose job for 8 hours or more a day, 5 days a week was to cut out "visible" tumors from meat. Yuck!! Chances of tumors not being visible as the meat moved by was highly likely. When there was so many tumors and the meat was basically scraps..that meat was to be made into hotdogs & lunchmeat. Hotdogs anyone??? :eek: :eek:

I think EVERYONE should have to witness a slaughterhouse slaughter.

[Pailani]

I think EVERYONE should have to witness a slaughterhouse slaughter.

I don't, I think reading about it is bad enough. I don't want to see it.

[dreamrawalwz]

I don't, I think reading about it is bad enough. I don't want to see it.

Ditto. I havn't seen it and will NEVER see it. I won't let any of my children see it (when i have children and if they did a field trip there).

[adrienne]

twinyoga-
i saw that one day and couldn't believe it either but i think i just put it out of my mind b/c i do love the noggin and would like to say that it is a great thing to put on when you need to take a shower and get dressed (esp. if your husband is at work or out of town for a few weeks) and your 2 year old can enjoy some commercial-free TV as noggin is for the most part (she likes winnie the pooh videos too)
but this turkey thing is way out of control! good for you for emailing them, i might as well and let us know if you hear from them.
my fav. part of noggin is moose and zee ;) oh yeah my 2 year old likes them too!

[twinyoga]

Still haven't heard back from Noggin. We watched PBS today and played games.

[patient1]

That's something I would WANT my children to see and witness so that they could be educated. Afterwards we'd have a parent-directed discussion to frame what they had seen. That's what so powerful about television: all myriad of information and images that either we (parents) can shape or that we can allow the outlet to frame for our kids. It's one thing to tell them certain things...another for them to see it with their own eyes.

It's akin to my children (from an early age) watching films about people living (and dying) under unjust circumstances.

I know this was an old post, but I thought it was an interesting topic.

p1

[GaiaLyn]

i have seen that, too, and i change the channel. my kidlet is not old enough to have a critical discussion on it.

i also change the channel when luis makes meat dishes on his little cooking show...as adorable as he is anyway :D

i won't boycott noggin over it. different families make different personal choices and the programming on television reflects mostly "mainstream" views...that's something you'll always have to deal with if you let your kids watch tv and/or watch tv with your kids.

pbs sprout just fired the goodnight show host, melanie, for a project she worked on prior to being employed by them that they felt was inappropriate to her "image", which i disagree with and feel was unfair, so for me, switching to pbs wouldn't be a better choice anyway.

[kmik]

adding my 2 cents way after the fact... we saw that too with my 4 1/2 and 6 year old... I felt it proved a point to them. They're vegetarians, and think it's "sad" when family members eat meat... so when they saw that, the cute chickies and all, and realized where this all was headed it strengthened their resolve in how wrong it is to kill animals for food. They just can't comprehend why someone would take all that effort to raise turkeys and then kill them all. I think any child, vegetarian or not, would have to pause and wonder after watching that.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Maybe it depends on the age of the child. When they are old enough for discernment and understanding it could be something beneficial to help them make good choices.

[Conscious Midwife]

Reevaluated the OP and other post and agree with the age appropriateness and teachable moment concept.

I think I also assumed the slaughtering was actually in the telvised show.

Good thing the Op supervised the viewing as we all should unless the kiddos are watching the same video for the 132nd time as mine do...

favorites

Imagination, Veggie Tales, PBS learning videos...

[AICgem]

I think my son would have to see a slaughterhouse to really get it. He's 12(not a Noggin fan, but come 6pm...The N is all he watches!) I buy organic cage free eggs for him and explain why and what the difference is (I reference the movie Napoleon Dynamite when he's in the hen house) and I get the 'look'...mom and her wierd food!
The movie Super Size Me is on the movie channel we get...he get's so mad, I keep calling him into my studio to watch parts of it...he'd never sit through the whole movie, but I figure if he sees enough bits and pieces he'll get the idea.
He's a sensitive kid...he gets teary about a horse up the street thats going to be put down because it's blind...I think if he saw the way animals were treated that might even work.
If he were to see a slaughterhouse I'd have to be with him...i'd rather get him to change his ways some other way...not even his father's health gets him thinking about his health and how he eats( his dad is 52, had a heart attack at 40 and was told a month ago he's a heart attack waiting to happen...getting a chemical stress test this week...)
Sorry.I rambled!

[lissomllama]

That is sad and terrible. It just shows how brainwashed we can become from the media and from cooked eating. I'm glad your'e e-mailing them. I'd send them a handwritten letter as well! Insteda of that junk, children should see real, healthy, happy turkeys living in nature or on a free range farm. Happy to eat when they want and soak up natural sun rays and if they are fed by humans, a loving hand should be shown giving the food, not metal contraptions!!. Why can't that be on TV? Why can't children be taken on fieldtrips to free range farms and see happy, healthy turkeys or see them in the wild?

[AJ Bodine]

As a child, I witnessed plenty of animals being slaughtered on our farm. I particularily remember a night when my Uncle shot a row of cows through their heads. One right after the other. It's not like I made a choice that day, never to eat meat again. But I used to pick meat out of whatever was being served and eat everything else. I know the family thought I was nuts not to like the "best part" of the dinner. As an adult, I think about that row of cows and I know why I lost my taste for meat.

My son has been mostly vegan his whole life. He's always been raised to love animals, not eat them. When he was 4, I hired a lady in the neighborhood to babysit. I explained to her that we didn't eat meat. The first day at lunch, she showed my son bologna and asked if he'd like to try it. He responded by saying, "is that a dead cow or a dead pig?". She ended up giving him peanut butter upon his request. (she didn't last long as our babysitter)

I would not have a problem allowing my son to see the reality in which animals are treated when they are being raised for mass production. I believe it will only solidify the reasons why we as a family are vegan. That's just a personal choice though. If we were to have seen this program, we would have a discussion about what really happens to these turkeys. He is at the age where he would understand though.

[goodbeets]

AJ, I agree with you, Most kids think food comes from a grocery store and when they are taught food comes from farms it's Old MacDonald's farm! If we actually showed them the truth and trusted them to make a clear judgement on what they see (which they are capeable of doing) maybe they would make more authentic choices for themselves.