Worried!!!

[Lunar*Fey]

I know there has been MANY many posts about B12, but after reading them all I am still worried. I asked my mom about supplimenting but she told me to eat honey and I would be fine. I will try to talk to her about it again, but she gets really upset and aggrivated with me if I try to point out that she may be wrong about anything....her philosophy is generally "I am the mother, don't argue with me (as I tend to do) I am right and that is that!" But I understand as I have always been rather strong minded and have my own opinion about everything. Before I was two I was telling her what clothes I was going to wear. Any way, I am just very very worried about B12 deficiency, I really don't want to take any chances. Can anyone clearify for me? Is there any way I can get enough B12 without suppliments, and if not I wonder why it is not possible to get naturally...it just seems odd to me. I did get 20 dollars for my three hours of garden work today, but there is no one to take me to a health food store!
any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, is there anything I can do!!??

[RawFoodieMom]

I'm still confused about the B12 issue as well, but I want to assure you that it takes YEARS to become deficient in B12 after leaving a cooked food diet. So don't think it's something that's really urgent at this stage. The reason why it's still a confusing issue is because there aren't enough studies done on what foods contain the KIND of B12 that's usable by our bodies. There are some that believe B12 deficiency can be warded off by seaweeds (Nori, etc) but studies have not been done (that I've found) that confirm that the kind of B12 in seaweed is the kind that our bodies can use and will prevent B12 defiency.

Sorry, I'm not really helping here. :confused:

If I ever won the lottery, I would use the money to do proper tests on B12 usage by the body and the different sources. And tests on enyzme activity, and much more...

Debra

[RawFoodieMom]

Also, I want to add that I really don't believe it's becoming a raw food vegan that makes a person deficient in B12, I think my post above is misleading in that respect. There are lots of SAD eaters that are deficient too. And there's no evidence (that I've found) that meat contains the type of B12 that prevents deficiencies either... One of the articles I read (wish I'd bookmarked it) said that meat DOESN'T contain the proper B12 needed.

:confused:

[Lay-Lay]

I am eating plenting of seaweed and getting in some doses of wheatgrass here and there. I plan to get a yearly checkup to make sure my B12 levels are ok. If I need to supplement in the future I will. In the meantime I am just going to enjoy raw and be merry!

[Lunar*Fey]

thanks both of you :)

RawFoodieMom,
Do you know how long it takes to become deficient, I mean what if I didn't have enough to begin with? Would previous starvation have taken a toll on my store of it? I shall have to do more research, and ask my doctor if I can have a test when I see her tomorrow. I really wish someone would do further studies so we could truly know more about it.

Lay-Lay,
I don't have access to seaweed OR wheatgrass (that I know of)! I do have some kelp granules, but I have read that they can actually reduce your B12 for some reason. I am probably worrying for nothing, and I too just want to enjoy raw...but with all this medical attention on me constantly that is hard to do. Plus it seems I may have some of the symptoms, if I remember then correctly that is. But those things could come from a number of different things.

[juliebove]

I've had a B12 deficiency since I was a teen. I had some weird symptoms. My mom mentioned this to her nurse friend and she said they were caused by this. I started taking supplements and it went away. I've tried on occasion to stop taking them but the symptoms come back. Vitamin deficiencies are easy to diagnose though, by your regular Dr. A simple blood test is enough.

[Lay-Lay]

get tested!

[Lunar*Fey]

I'll definately be asking my doctor for a test tomorrow! I better write myself a note or I'll forget, I'll let you know how it goes (once I get the results :))

[Doe]

Do you have access to raw mushrooms? Seems like RP said they have B-12. If you do a search she had quite a list of reasons she does not wory about deficiency in that area.

[RawFoodieMom]

I think it would differ from person to person how long it would take to become deficient if we aren't getting enough through our current diet.

I would think that it's possible that previous starvation might have depleted some stores of B12.

Since we really don't know enough about it, and you're worried, I would take previous advice and do what you were thinking and ask your Dr. to do a test. Then you can proceed with either supplementing if needed, or it will put your mind at ease that you're not deficient.

Then you get on to happier RAW times. :)

[Graciebeliever]

I hear that dirt actually holds some of the key to the b-12 issue. But somehow it just doesn't inspire me to go out to the garden shed and lick the digging spade or make a RAW mud pie HAHAHA

I wouldn't over worry about it :)

Read and draw your own conclusion from the info you gather.

[Faithfullyfit]

Also, I want to add that I really don't believe it's becoming a raw food vegan that makes a person deficient in B12, I think my post above is misleading in that respect. There are lots of SAD eaters that are deficient too. And there's no evidence (that I've found) that meat contains the type of B12 that prevents deficiencies either... One of the articles I read (wish I'd bookmarked it) said that meat DOESN'T contain the proper B12 needed.

:confused:
Lunar*fey and RawFoodieMom:

For many years I followed a high protein diet and watched all processed carbs and was very fit- but would have bouts of fatigue and brain fog and weakness. I had my blood work done about 2 years ago-- before I found RAW!!! and it showed a severe B-12 deficiency- ALL that protien and hmmm...! Go figure- All RAW now and have so much more strength in my workouts and have very little brain fog as long as I follow food combining guidelines or just straight Mono eating.- I do supplement with B-12 sublingual drops every now and then- just because I have it- I have noticed that it helps me with headaches? Don't know why but it does.

Have a GREAT night!

Let me know if you win the lottery and start a study....I will sign up for the trial ;)

[Faithfullyfit]

I am eating plenting of seaweed and getting in some doses of wheatgrass here and there. I plan to get a yearly checkup to make sure my B12 levels are ok. If I need to supplement in the future I will. In the meantime I am just going to enjoy raw and be merry!


Oh Yeah...this reminded me- I do wheatgrass shots (2oz) abouy 2-3 times a week............LOVE them!

[Lunar*Fey]

Thank you to everyone for your replies :)

Doe, sometimes I can get raw mushrooms actually! I can only eat like one or two raw and they have to be sliced really really thin, otherwise I generally cannot really stomach them. good idea though, I forgot about mushrooms.

Rawfoodiemom, I will be taking your advice...if I remember! lol I better

Graciebeliever, hahaha that really made me laugh. I have heard about dirt as well, but we don't have good dirt here any way lol.

Faithfullyfit,
strange, I have been having a lot of bad headaches lately...and for some reason the first thing i thought of (quite randomly) was B12.
hmm I want to try wheatgrass! but I only have seen the soft wheat berries.
thank you and Have a great night as well! :D


soo I remember that we have some brewer's yeast that I bought when I went cooked vegan for amino acids and B12 and such and I know it isn't raw...but neither are suppliments. This can be my suppliment for now (after I get tested just to see). It tastes disgusting though! But I have heard of people seeing good results from its consumption. I don't know how good or bad it would be though. hmm. i mean its like...isn't it defeating the purpose of being 100% raw? oh I don't know! blech.

hmm I just found THIS (http://www.optimalhealthsystems.com/pdf/vitmin.pdf#search='brewer%27s%20yeast%20raw') which says that has good sources of vitamins and under B12 it lists (in this order):
Brewer's yeast
Dulse
Kelp
Kombu (what?)
Nori
Herring
Mackerel
Salmon
Snapper
Sole
Whole wheat

[Doe]

Also, if you eat your veggies and fruits without washing, most likely you will get enough B-12.

We eat ours right out of our gardens this way.
Lunar*Fey if your job is helping in a garden you should have the opportunity to eat fresh veggies, fruits, or both after just wiping the excess soil away. If your employer doesn't seem the type to share you could offer to buy some. Or could you also plant a few things at home??
Teri S

[Lay-Lay]

Lunar*fey and RawFoodieMom:

For many years I followed a high protein diet and watched all processed carbs and was very fit- but would have bouts of fatigue and brain fog and weakness. I had my blood work done about 2 years ago-- before I found RAW!!! and it showed a severe B-12 deficiency- ALL that protien and hmmm...! Go figure- All RAW now and have so much more strength in my workouts and have very little brain fog as long as I follow food combining guidelines or just straight Mono eating.- I do supplement with B-12 sublingual drops every now and then- just because I have it- I have noticed that it helps me with headaches? Don't know why but it does.

Have a GREAT night!

Let me know if you win the lottery and start a study....I will sign up for the trial ;)

It's funny you said this I was on a high protein diet for 2 years until I started getting sick and didn't know why. It started with a foggy head and then fatique. I bet I had a b-12 deficiency.

[loveyouforever]

Hello :)

here are some articles on B12 (they are all from reputable sources). i hope they will help you decide what you need:

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminB12/

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/1/3

love, katalin

[veganman]

For those of you that had a deficiency and then supplemented....

did you supplement with sublingual, caps, or tablets? How much per day?

Also, how soon before the symptoms went away?

I am wondering if this is the cause of the anxiety, fatigue, memory problems, brain fog, etc I have had the past year. I started supplementing 1 week ago with 1000mcg of b-12 caps. No change yet.

[Lay-Lay]

I took B-12 shots. I injected them myself and they were a perscription from the doctor. I was not raw then and I really do not know how great they were. My dad takes them and my grandmother did too. They say they really help. They do the shots. My dad is on Semi SAD and my grandmother was constantly on a candy binge.

[vgloveforlife]

Lunar-Do NOT depend on food for b12. Go get a B-complex vitamin right now and take it at least 2X a week. Personally I would not take any chances!

I take Buried Treasure B-Complex
http://www.vitacost.com/BuriedTreasureBComplexVitamins

It's probably not all raw but I like the fact that it's liquid and easily absorbable.

[vgloveforlife]

I also wanted to share how I overdosed on B12. I don't think it is that common. I had a really idiotic moment and didn't measure the b12 supplement I was taking, and just basically drank it. There was only a little left in the bottle but as I took it I realised there was more than I had anticipated and it was really concentrated.

In a matter of minutes, I was so hot and I broke out in a complete rash all over my body. My body was burning up so bad. I couldn't sit still or it was worse. I drank loads of water and rushed to the ER cause I was so scared. Everything turned out OK. I ended up going home before they even treated me because the rash went away.
That was a scarey night!

[Sheryl]

I bought the one from Gabriel Cousins Tree of Life today... looks really good. It's totally active, and is a dissolve under the tongue losenge. I'll let you know what it's like when it arrives (USA -> Australia).

Cheers,
Sheryl

[Lunar*Fey]

Thank you so much for the suggestions and advice everyone :)

[Faithfullyfit]

For those of you that had a deficiency and then supplemented....

did you supplement with sublingual, caps, or tablets? How much per day?

Also, how soon before the symptoms went away?

I am wondering if this is the cause of the anxiety, fatigue, memory problems, brain fog, etc I have had the past year. I started supplementing 1 week ago with 1000mcg of b-12 caps. No change yet.

This was exactly what I had experienced...... !


I use sublingual drops for better and faster absorption and my husband takes a weekly injection (yikes!- I could never give myself a shot :eek: ) Where is Nancyisraw???? She is very well read and experienced in the B12 area- she healed quite a few ailments and reccomends a certain type of B12 The "M" over the "C" - we should get her into this thread!!!

I think your B-12 is closely related to intestinal health too-right? I think that is the theory behind the bacteria content in soil, etc... Can someone educate us further on this.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I think worry and concern is usually a result of not knowing something entirely. It's a fear based on not understanding something and being scared of the unknown.

There have been a lot of threads on here and elsewhere, where people try to 'scare' others about getting in enough B-12 or else they will get brain damage or something really bad. I think for the most part it is a lot of hype.

If you are truly concerned, try googling the symptoms of B-12 deficiency and then take a test to see if you are truly low in that nutrient. Since you are working with a therapist who knows you are a veggie, she might be able to order that test for you.

And even if your results come out low, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are in danger of anything. I saw a post somewhere where a person's levels were quite low but they felt fine and I believe they were supplementing.

[rachelmh]

I posted something on this not too long ago. I take one 500 mcg tablet every morning. I don't think I had a deficiency, but I don't want to develop one either. I can't imagine that it can hurt me to take one tablet a day.

My next quest is on calcium and folic acid/folate.

[bittersweet]

Thank you to everyone for your replies :)

Doe, sometimes I can get raw mushrooms actually! I can only eat like one or two raw and they have to be sliced really really thin, otherwise I generally cannot really stomach them. good idea though, I forgot about mushrooms.

Rawfoodiemom, I will be taking your advice...if I remember! lol I better

Graciebeliever, hahaha that really made me laugh. I have heard about dirt as well, but we don't have good dirt here any way lol.

Faithfullyfit,
strange, I have been having a lot of bad headaches lately...and for some reason the first thing i thought of (quite randomly) was B12.
hmm I want to try wheatgrass! but I only have seen the soft wheat berries.
thank you and Have a great night as well! :D


soo I remember that we have some brewer's yeast that I bought when I went cooked vegan for amino acids and B12 and such and I know it isn't raw...but neither are suppliments. This can be my suppliment for now (after I get tested just to see). It tastes disgusting though! But I have heard of people seeing good results from its consumption. I don't know how good or bad it would be though. hmm. i mean its like...isn't it defeating the purpose of being 100% raw? oh I don't know! blech.

hmm I just found THIS (http://www.optimalhealthsystems.com/pdf/vitmin.pdf#search='brewer%27s%20yeast%20raw') which says that has good sources of vitamins and under B12 it lists (in this order):
Brewer's yeast
Dulse
Kelp
Kombu (what?)
Nori
Herring
Mackerel
Salmon
Snapper
Sole
Whole wheat

Kombu is a type of kelp. To my knowledge, all seaweeds are great for b12.
Brewer's Yeast is gross. try nutritional yeast instead.

[vgloveforlife]

^^I've heard that these do have b12 but it is not absorbed by the body...