What happened to my post?

[paleogirl]

I posted a LONG post last night before bed - I was really looking forward to see what you guys suggested, but now I log in and it looks like my post was deleted! :confused: The post was about when I go 100% raw I get bloated from fruit and also feel like I'm lacking protein (or *something* in meat) - tired, depressed, gained 8lbs in 2 weeks!, so now I'm back to raw everything except cooked meat (I won't cook any of my veggies and I am strictly grain and dairy free). I talked about going 100% again with sashimi to help me on my way, but still leaving out fruit. I wanted to know if anyone tried this (no fruit and/or sashimi) or can anyone suggest how to get more protein in a raw diet?

I hope my post wasn't deleted because I talked about eating sashimi! :( :confused:

[Pailani]

I remember seeing that post.

Maybe it's certain fruits that aren't agreeing with you? Maybe you could find a few fruits that you can handle and make green smoothies with them, since greens have more protien per ounce than even meat.

[Revvell]

I hope my post wasn't deleted because I talked about eating sashimi! :( :confused:

I believe it was. As has been stated, this board was created in support of a raw vegan lifestyle ~ or those wishing to become so. Often it's the way something is worded as much as anything else. IF you'd asked how to get more protein into your lifestyle, then, I doubt there'd have been a problem.

Btw, this subject has come up numerous times. You might wish to search it while waiting for other reponses.

Revvell

[Gosia]

Hello paleogirl,

Getting bloated after eating fruit is not the result of eating fruit per se, but rather, the result of poor food combining. This includes leaving enough time between the meals. Otherwise, the fruit sits on top of the previous meal, ferments and voila, you get bloated (not that you wanted :) ). The problem of getting bloated can be easily overcome, if you practice simple food combining rules!

As far as protein, why would you want to get more? The amount of protein in the raw food diet is sufficient. There are a number of good articles that explain that well, including Alissa's post on this forum. Also, one can easily confirm that they get enough protein by calculating their intake using fitday.com or any other such site.

As a randomly picked data, have a look at this fruit-based raw-diet simple daily-menu example: 12 bananas, 2 heads of lettuce and 7 slices of avocado. This gives 35g protein (1972 cal, carb : protein : fat ratio approx 82:8:10). Plenty. :)

Note that there are many 100% athletes, body builders etc. They do not have any symptoms of protein deficiency. On the contrary.

What you really need is aminocaids, not protein. In one of the article on protein, someone wisely said that if you want to build a house, you need the raw material (bricks etc) not some house (that you would have to knock down to get the bricks). Eating raw foods will supply you plenty of that raw material (aminoacids)!

As far as the raw material in cooked meat, it is less than perfect. As it is damaged by cooking, you will actually absorb much smaller percentage of it into your body than you would assume. Besides, there is research confirming that eating cooked meat is linked with cancer (got a reference, if you are interested).


Gosia

[paleogirl]

Pailani - thanks. I'm experiementing! A small lemon in my green juice is working ok, as long as I eat/drink it after dinner!

Revvell - Wow... If that's the case, I really am very disappointed. I thought I was VERY careful with my wording. I read and re-read it to make sure it didn't come across as anti-vegan (which it wasn't - I'm not!). I was asking for help getting to 100% raw. Sorry if I offended anyone - I'm really not sure how I could have though! :confused:

Gosia - I wish the original post was here... it was a lot more detailed! I was very careful with food combining, as I'd read about that making fruit a problem for some. I tried eating fruit first thing in the morning (empty stomach) and got instantly foggy-headed, as well as bloated. I really feel it's a blood-sugar thing. The only way I can tolerate fruit and not get this reaction is to go AGAINST the combining rules and eat fruit on a full stomach, combined with fat - ie: apple with nut butter (after dinner), or fruit as part of a post-dinner green smoothie, with a T of coconut oil mixed in. If I eat fruit with fat on a full stomach, I'm ok. These are things that are recommended for diabetics or hypoglycemics. Could that be it?

Re: the protein, I totally believe that a raw vegan diet gives a person adequate protein :) but I also know from experience that I 'run' better on higher than average protein. This is what my question was addressing in my original post - could anyone suggest good ways to get higher amounts of protein without meat? My mention of sashimi was thinking out loud - surely better to eat a little raw fish and stay 100% raw than be 90% raw with cooked meat? (dairy and cooked grains are not an option for me - celiac plus extra food intolerances).

Anyway... :D... after 4 days fruit/sugar-free I'm no longer bloated, have lost 2-3lbs (doesn't sound much but it has got me back into my size 2 clothes!), and energy/mood is high. After my (high fat, low carb) breakfast today I didn't think about food until 4:30. I would normally be snacking my way through a day-long blood-sugar rollercoaster. My day's food in fit day came out as follows: 1538 cals. 67% fat, 4% carbs, 29% protein. It was all raw except some wild salmon and a can of tuna (110g protein). This felt good to me. Felt very stable all day.

[Gosia]

Paleogirl, first thing in the morning does not gurantee that your digestion from the previous day is complete. In particular, if you eat some heavy stuff the day before, it will still be digesting in the morning. Especially, if you ate meat. So, if you have fruit first thing in the morning, you will experience bloating.

Gosia

[Revvell]

Revvell - Wow... If that's the case, I really am very disappointed. I thought I was VERY careful with my wording. I read and re-read it to make sure it didn't come across as anti-vegan (which it wasn't - I'm not!). I was asking for help getting to 100% raw. Sorry if I offended anyone - I'm really not sure how I could have though! :confused:

I understand. I read the original post and to me it was borderline. To someone else it may have crossed the line. *shrugs* It is what it is. Anyway, it's not about offending anyone, it's about the spirit of the board which, as stated is in support of raw vegan.

So, you're still here and, it seems, this one has passed inspection ~ so far. :D

Revvell

[Arky]

I've noticed posts being deleted on this board even when they do not undermine vegan 'doctrine'. It is highly discourteous to delete posts without extending the common courtesy of notifying, and briefly explaining the reason to, the writer of the post. On ANY other board I contribute to, there would (quite rightly) be absolute uproar at this behaviour.

If a post is in deliberate contravention of the board rules/ethos, then that is a different matter, but if a post is sincere in its line of questioning/discussion then what does the raw vegan community have to gain by pushing that person away (by deleting their post) rather than engaging in civil and adult discussion with them? A cogent and rational explanation of the reason why their post is deemed inappropriate for the board might even have that poster rethinking their own dietary philosophy and possibly alligning with raw veganism, whereas the current behaviour will only serve to alienate posters.

What is so ironic is that, in stealthily ensuring 'everybody toes the line', on whatever basis, rather than mods openly engaging in constructive dialogue with posters, the net result is that an atmosphere of distrust and suspicion is created towards mods, along with an air of paranoia being unwittingly propogated by those doing the deleting - if the mods deleting posts cannot extend the basic courtesy of telling posters why their post(s) are deemed to be inappropriate, then one is left questioning the motives and, dare I say it, even the emotional stability, of those doing this - what is it they are so desperate to hide/deny/obscure from the public? In short, if the raw (vegan, in the case of this board) message is to be more widely embraced then anyone discourteously and silently deleting posts, in a cloak-and-dagger manner, is only going to be shooting themselves, the board, and the raw vegan message in the foot. It's discourteous, smacks of paranoia, and is entirely distasteful. I know that many of you reading this post will be quietly nodding your heads in as much as you've experienced the silent slashing of your own posts at some point. If you haven't yet, then just give it time, your time will come.

I very much welcome responses to this post, should it be deemed 'permissible' by the sacred moderation covenant ;) (I'm keeping a copy, incidentally - oh yes, I've learned from my experiences here on this board), but please don't respond by lamely harping on about how this is a vegan board and that's the reason - the truth is, I've seen many posts (some mine, many belonging to others) which in no way infringed upon vegan doctrine, yet were slashed from the board with gay abandon and no explanation given, either publicly or in private.

It is such a pity - this boards members are, by and large, a very open, friendly, and sincere group of people (and that extends to many of the mods, too, some of whom I have a great deal of respect for) - the polar opposite of the message the aforementioned behaviour propogates, be it intentionally or otherwise.


J.

[rawfigure]

Coming from a former Protein Pig (and Bodybuilder) you do not need as much Protein as is touted.

I dropped from 120-180 a day to 30-60 grams a day and I actually gained muscle in the last ten months ! I planned on losing a little !

Proof is in that.

[Guppy]

I had a post deleted last week when I asked a question about the Garden Diet. I have seen others ask about different programs and philosophies so I don't understand why my post got the ax. It would have been nice to get an email explaining what I did "wrong".

Paleo - My dh is transitioning to raw vegan from a SAD meat-eating diet. Last week he just jumped into raw with both feet and felt pretty terrible. I advised him to take it a bit slower. This week he has added back a bit of sashimi and tuna, and he feels better. Be it mental or physical, sometimes it seems wise to take a slower and more gradual approach. You will find the way that works for you.

Good luck!
emily

[mel123]

What did you eat when you went fruit-free. This is an issue for me but noone will talk to me about it. They just tell me that raw is different. What did you eat, specifically? Also( I feel a little dumb) what is sashimi? I posted about adding fish as a transition and my post was removed. I would love to see what you eat and maybe we can support each other in living grain and fruit free or at least reduced...

[chilove]

Hi there,

I don't think that it is advisable to go fruit free, grain free yes, fruit free no. Fruit is our natural food. There is no doubt about it. Vegetables do not supply us with enough calories and meat causes cancer (read The China Study by T. Colin Campbell. Please check out some of the following websites to learn more.

www.foodnsport.com (the FAQ section)
www.rawschool.com
www.rawfoodexplained.com

Take care,

Audrey
www.rawhealing.com

[mel123]

once again, paleo and you pls tell em what you eat....Thanx...

[Lay-Lay]

wow, no comments from moderators. I am in utter shock, oh well next thread, LOL!

I will openly proclaim I am a raw foodist. I do not claim to be vegan although I eat no animal products because for me it is not healthy. I don't feel good when I do and I don't think humans were designed to eat meat, but I also don't down others for doing so.

Paleogrrl-everyone transitions in their own way. You have to find your way. For me before I went 100% I tried to transition only eating fish. I learned quick that wasn't working for me. It was a gateway for me to other meats and cooked foods. I cannot hang on the fence and have health too! ALL RAW is the only way for me. I know in my heart of heart one bite, just one bite cooked/meat and it would be a backward slope for me.

I wish you all the success in the world on your journey and I hope your transition is a smooth one.

P.S. sorry your post got removed, but I am sure they had a good reason. You may want to email them in private.

[Revvell]

I've noticed posts being deleted on this board even when they do not undermine vegan 'doctrine'. It is highly discourteous to delete posts without extending the common courtesy of notifying, and briefly explaining the reason to, the writer of the post. On ANY other board I contribute to, there would (quite rightly) be absolute uproar at this behaviour.
J.

Well, I'm not going to respond to all you've said here, yet, being a moderator for another site which is NOwhere near as busy as this one ~

Yes, I understand your feelings about having posts deleted without letting the poster know the whys and wherefores. I myself had a whole long thread deleted with no explanation. *shrugs* so what? Personally, I've got better things to do than rant and rave about how someone "should" run their sites. The fact is, this site was set up for one specific reason. The next thing is, none of the mods are being paid to do this as far as I know. They all have their own families, their own jobs, their own lives. That they have taken on this HUGE reponsibility to "try" and keep this forum on an even keel says a lot for them as humans. IF they take the time to email every person who has gone outside the Mission Statement and explain in full detail what is already written, they'd be spending a lot of time spitting in the wind as, I'm sure, many of the posters will not settle for one explanation and they'll be going back and forth ad nauseum.

For me, I thank the mods for doing what they do. It's a lot move complicated and time-consuming than you can imagine.

Have a funtabulous weekend.

Revvell

[Lay-Lay]

I second that Revvell. Thanks so much for mods for making this the best forum I know of!!!

[Rawkinlocs]

Revvell,

A BIG HUG to you. I really appreciate you saying that.

I wasn't going to utter one word on this entire thread because as I've said many times before, it seems that with some things I'm dam**d if I do and dam**d if I don't. But since Revvell came and said some of the very things that had been going through my mind since reading this thread, I thought I'd go ahead and express myself a bit.

About the OP's first post being removed: All I can say is I didn't remove it but I'd be willing to bet it wasn't removed for the reasons the OP thinks it was and I'll leave it at that. I read and understood the OP to ask how to get protein in a raw diet that didn't include fruit and that she wanted to do this withOUT eating meat as she had been doing. I think there were other underlying reasons the thread was removed but I don't want to speculate and assume.

About others' posts being removed: We (mods) do what we think is right here. Aside from the mission statement, there are other rules that aren't quite as spelled out in black and white...but from past posts/threads and experiences where we've seen Alissa respond to things a certain way, we just sorta follow suit using our best discretion.

About not notifying you when we remove something: I like what Revvell said. I agree that for the most part, if we emailed you it WOULD be a back-and-forth match and we'd have to hear how unfair, etc. I have even had posts of mine removed. Yeah, it kinda stings my ego for a minute but then I get over it or if it's something I REALLY don't understand why, I write and I ask and once it's explained, I may or may not agree or fully understand but I just move on because it's not to my detriment if a post of mine is removed...I'm not going to DIE or SUFFER from it...the only thing "damaged" is again, maybe feelings, pride or ego and I think the same stands with most of us. There are more pressing issues in life, IMHO.

About the discussion of meat: (and Paleogirl, this is not directed directly at you) - I think the point many are missing is that WE DON'T CARE if you decide to eat meat for protein or whatever...no one here is the raw police to police what you eat. However, it has been said time and time again that this forum is not the place to discuss eating meat (or egg or milk). I mean honestly, would you go to a cooked vegan board and tell them, "Well, I eat meat" or "I'm going to start eating meat"? No, I think you'd just DO it and not speak about it there. Why can't that be done here? Why discuss it here when it's been clearly stated that those types of things are not advocated here? If I wanted to discuss them on a forum, then I'd search out one that accepts eating whatever.

In general:
The moderators here do what we do because we want to and not because we have to. Have any of you ever seen a forum or list that was left to itself? Complete and utter CHAOS! Imagine if Rawpriestess, Sweetgoddess and I decided, "You know what, we don't need this constant criticism!"...imagine having to deal with the spam and nasty porn-based posts...imagine the bickering and flaming and arguing. I imagine some people LIKE drama and feed off of stuff like that...but I think we have done very well to keep this place a nice, friendly, "clean" place to hang out. No, we won't always do things the way you want them done..No, we won't always be favored amongst the ENTIRE membership of this board...No, we won't always make decisions that are accepted by all...but we do the best that we can and we do what we feel is right and most importantly, we don't MAKE the rules here...we just try to enforce them and keep things inline with how the OWNER of this forum wants things run.

It's stuff like this that sometimes gives me thoughts of giving up on moderating but I don't want to do that. I like what I do here but it gets stressful at times when everyone wants you to do things a certain way and you KNOW you can't and won't please everyone. I am a sensitive person...I don't like being the "bad guy" and I don't like animosity between myself and others if I can help it...I think some of you here can vouch for me coming to you and making up with you after a disagreement. I don't like contention and try to avoid it all costs. But there are times when I MUST be stern. I only hope that people don't take it so personally that they label me as a bad or mean person.

I try to say, "Well, I don't care if they're mad" but in all honesty, most times I DO care. I am a real person with real feelings and not a digitized, automated being.

So, I hope that those of you who feel we are not moderating "correctly" would take a moment to put yourselves in our shoes and think about trying to please ALL the people on this forum and how impossible that is. I think that overall, this is one of THE best raw food boards out there and no, we may not be perfect and no, we won't all agree on everything or how things are run...but that's life! We do the best that we can and what we think is best in accordance with how Alissa wants it run. Sorry if it offends some of you or steps on your toes...that's not our intention.

[Rawkinlocs]

Paleogirl, I just discovered that your first post was not completely removed...it is invisible to everyone else, but we (mods) can still view it in the event that it's decided to re-open it. But here is your original post:

========================
Originally posted by Paleogirl:

I've been high raw / 100% raw on and off for a couple of months. The longest stretch I was 100% raw was 2 weeks.

Anyway, after a week at 100% this last time, I became incredibly sensitive to fruit - stupidly bloated and horribly foggy headed/dizzy. I also started to need more sleep and became depressed, irritable... my skin was a mess and I gained 8 pounds. The foggy-headness was the worst part though. This is also exactly what happened the previous time I was 100%, I think because I increase my fruit intake.

Once again, led by my past experiences of when I felt GREAT, I cut out fruit and added back some cooked meat (mainly wild salmon). I instantly felt better. I've been eating everything raw except my daily meat/fish, and the weight is slowly normalising and the foggy-headedness has completely gone, skin clearing, stomach no longer bloated and I am happy/energetic again.

I tried a teaspoon of apple juice this AM and the foggy-headedness and bloating came instantly back! It took all day to wear off.

Although right now, at low-carb high raw I feel great, I have this nagging desire to be 100% raw again. I can just feel that it's right. However I really don't feel I can do that whilst omitting fruit. I also have a feeling that my depression and mood problems came from lack of protein. I had been eating almonds and sunflower seeds, but I'd previously been on a very high protein diet. I think some of us just need different ratios of food to others, and I truly feel great on high protein (and terrible on less). I eat a lot of good fats too - an avocado a day, coconut oil, flax seeds, almonds...

Any ideas on how to maintain high protein and fruit-free but be 100% raw? Anyone else had the reaction I had? The only solution I can think of is to add sashimi daily - not vegan but still raw. I appreciate this board is vegan, but I'm trying to make RAW work for my body, and I would be vegan if I felt I could. It's totally not about meat or cooked food cravings (the only thing I crave is raw fruit!!) As mentioned before, I'm 100% dairy free (casein intolerance), so I probably actually consume less animal products than most dairy-eating vegetarians!

Has anyone managed raw without fruit? What do you eat? I was only having 2-3 portions a day, but right now I can't even tolerate a bite of apple. I really feel like I have an all-round carbohydrate intolerance. :( :confused:

[Lay-Lay]

Rawkinloc, never hesitate to put me in my place if I need it or remove my post if they are found not appropriate. I welcome it for the good of the entire forum. You would owe me no explanation. Thank you so much for your work on this forum. Thank you ---to all the moderators. You are indeed special gems to me that I cherish as gifts along my raw journey.

[Rawkinlocs]

Rawkinloc, never hesitate to put me in my place if I need it or remove my post if they are found not appropriate. I welcome it for the good of the entire forum. You would owe me no explanation. Thank you so much for your work on this forum. Thank you ---to all the moderators. You are indeed special gems to me that I cherish as gifts along my raw journey.

Thank you Lay-Lay.

[mel123]

I still would like to know what paleo is eating in the way of raw and non-fruit and grain....this question may never get answered. Not really interested in the controversy.....Help me, paleo....

[Halo Aglow]

I would like to know exactly what you were eating as well.

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but do you eat hemp nuts? If not, do you think that would help you in the amino acid to protein category since you feel you need more than you are currently getting? Maybe you can try hemp nuts out for awhile and if you see no difference, it may be possible that amino acids to protein isn't what is the matter. But if it helps then, Yeah!

Personally when I consume hemp to get more amino acids, I feel better and it really helps my mood also. My husband even teases me that hemp makes me high because I laugh more and am way happier than usual when I make sure I incorporate it into my diet.

Other than that.... all I can think of is that maybe you need to watch out for food combining? Or detox because, you said you were raw on and off for a few months. A lot of people, once they go off raw and then go back to it go through the icky physical transition and detox again each time they change their diet back. That may be something to consider.

I hope you find the solution you want and need!

[rawpriestess]

Thank you Revvell for your words. That really means alot to me.

I want to clarify what I am doing here.

I was asked to be a mod, for I would imagine many reasons, and I love Alissa and her site, so I do what I can when I can.

I stay up everynight and check the boards for spam at midnight, as that is when it comes in every single night, for the last few weeks. This is in addition to all the other things I do each day.

Now, at times, I've felt like Rawkinlocs, that this just isn't worth it, because If I DON'T delete a post or thread, then I get emails asking me why, and if I do, then I get emails asking me why, or posts like this that Assume that we are somehow blatantly waiting in the wings with baited breath to swoop down and delete perfectly acceptable posts for our own personal fiendish glee.

So, I have chosen to ONLY delete the spam threads and never to delete other posts or threads no matter what.

I have threatened to delete posts, and then I send them to Alissa and let her decide, because after all, this is her board.

But Rawkinlocs, Cherie, Sweetgoddess, Me-Rawpriestess, Peppermint Patty and Todd are the moderators here, plus Alissa and the admin, so there are many people here that can make decisions, on what stays and what goes.

When I first became a moderator a few months ago, I deleted threads and posts that I thought were inappropriate, and Alissa asked that I not delete them unless they were totally and down right rude or offensive, because she wants us to have freedom of speech on her board. So I quit deleting them, I started editing out the offensive parts, and I was asked not to do that unless it was really a problem, so I quit doing that too.

I did delete two posts of people (including myself) who were advertising their stuff on Alissa's site under the classes and events just a few days ago, the first threads I deleted in a couple of months.

One (like mine) was an advertisement, and one was Revvell's and I was wrong, it was about her teleclasses, and I thought it was an advertisement, and it wasn't it was about her class, I didn't understand the difference.

I asked Alissa if I should email her and let her know that I had made a mistake, and they said that they had talked with her, so there was no need.

The reason I am telling you all this, is so that you can understand that I make mistakes, I'm not saying any other person does, but I sure do, and I appologize to anyone who may have had their post deleted in the past.

But so far, I have deleted that one post by Revvell, (and Revvell if you are reading this, I do wish to say that I appologize for that, because it was my error, not anything you did) and only one other post, that Alissa said should have stayed.

All the other posts that I've deleted were definitely spam.

But I did not delete this post, I did report that thread to Alissa to look at, so someone in her office could make the decision to delete it or keep it, because it was turing into a meat or not, fish or not, etc thread, and someone did delete it, it had nothing to do with the OP.

So, just to let you know, I don't delete posts or threads anymore unless they are very obviously spam.

I understand how you feel about your posts being deleted, I've had a bunch of mine deleted too, and I always wondered, why, what did I do wrong? Why didn't someone just ask me what I meant, and then let me delete it myself.

Well, I can tell you why, because we simply don't have the time, to email everyone, and not everyone has their email address where we can find it, or even checks their emails everyday.

I've emailed people on this board,many times, with no response, the a week later receive a response, and I can't even remember what I emailed them about.

Yes, if this were a perfect world, we would all have our email address where a moderator could find it, we would all have it updated when we changed our email addresses and we would check our email frequently, plus all the moderators would be perfect, but unfortuately that isn't the way it is.

I do my very best to be on the boards as often as possible, day and night, to welcome new people, to answer questions, to help where I can, to let people know that their questions are great and not dumb, to have fun and to visit with my raw family.

So, It really hurts me to think that one or any of you think that I or any moderator would deliberately indescriminantly delete posts or threads as we weild our axe.

I must say, I am quite upset and offended by this.

I'm not sure what I will do, I imagine I will lick my wounds, stay away for a while, then come back when the wounds are healed a bit.

I, just like Cherie, am very sensative, maybe that is why Alissa has us as modertors, because we actually care about this board and each and every one of you, as do all the moderators, otherwise, we'd be out laying in the sun, instead of being on the computer umpteen hours each day.

I can't tell you how many emails I answer each day from people on this board, who want some information, but don't want to post because they don't want to look dumb.

It really takes up alot of time and energy, but I am happy to help out new people, especially ones who want to understand about this wonderful raw lifestyle, but are slightly afraid to look silly or stupid, because when I first started I was in that same boat, and so many people on this boards helped me.

I'm sorry that any of you feel like I, or anyone isn't a good moderator, but one thing you must understand if you don't understand anything else, is that we are human, will make mistakes, are learning every day, and have a job to do here. Hopefully we can do that job well, every single second of every single day, but if not, then hopefully, we will be given forgiveness for not being perfect 100% of the time.

[rawlee]

RP, Rawkinlocs and all the other mods....you guys are my mentors, my big sisters that I look up to and learn from. Please know that you are very much appreciated and I would be bereft if I lost your guidance and knowledge. ( And when I see you at the September class, I'm gonna give you a big kiss!! :) )

[English Tracy]

Raw Priestess, I'm so sorry that you have been upset by the comments in this thread about the moderators and the way they operate.

I feel privileged to be able to use this site as it has given me a lot of information and people have been very welcoming. It is clearly necessary for people to monitor the content of what is posted (I remember recently there was a very strange lady making extremely abusive and libellous comments on the site) and I'm sure I'm not alone in thanking you for giving up your time, along with Rawkinlocs, Sweetgoddess and the others.

I don't know you personally but I have read your threads and posts for the last few months and looked at your website. I can see you have a very busy life outside of this site, and Sweetgoddess is experiencing a difficult time in her personal life yet you. her and the other mods are still committed to working (unpaid I think) to help promote the site and the benefits of the raw lifestyle.

Yes, it would be nice in an ideal word to know why a post has been deleted but surely a bit of common sense and 'lateral thinking' may give a person an idea of why their post was moved or deleted??

RP, please don't 'go away' from the site for a while. We'd all miss your recipes, insights and help so pleeeeeze stay and continue to do what you do so well. :)

Tracy

[mel123]

still trying to find out what paleo eats....is it time to scream yet!!!! I'm starting to lose hope;-o!!!!!

[Rawkinlocs]

Mel,

Paleogirl has not been on since earlier but I'm sure that when she does, she will share with you what she eats. In fact, I just checked and her email is available in her profile (just click on her name) so you can always email her and ask her directly.

To those who've written in support of us moderators, thank you for your kind words! They mean a lot...more than you know!

[Linda1970]

It's stuff like this that sometimes gives me thoughts of giving up on moderating but I don't want to do that. I like what I do here but it gets stressful at times when everyone wants you to do things a certain way and you KNOW you can't and won't please everyone. I am a sensitive person...I don't like being the "bad guy" and I don't like animosity between myself and others if I can help it...I think some of you here can vouch for me coming to you and making up with you after a disagreement. I don't like contention and try to avoid it all costs. But there are times when I MUST be stern. I only hope that people don't take it so personally that they label me as a bad or mean person.

I try to say, "Well, I don't care if they're mad" but in all honesty, most times I DO care. I am a real person with real feelings and not a digitized, automated being.



Cherie, I really wanted to hug you when I read this. I completely understand how you feel, for I'm exactly as you described above. I think you've been doing a fantastic job here, and I can totally feel the love, caring, and patience through your posts to me and other people here. Thank you so much for being our moderator. Thank you for your time, patience, and energy.

With love,
Linda

[Linda1970]

I do my very best to be on the boards as often as possible, day and night, to welcome new people, to answer questions, to help where I can, to let people know that their questions are great and not dumb, to have fun and to visit with my raw family.

So, It really hurts me to think that one or any of you think that I or any moderator would deliberately indescriminantly delete posts or threads as we weild our axe.

I must say, I am quite upset and offended by this.

I'm not sure what I will do, I imagine I will lick my wounds, stay away for a while, then come back when the wounds are healed a bit.

I, just like Cherie, am very sensative, maybe that is why Alissa has us as modertors, because we actually care about this board and each and every one of you, as do all the moderators, otherwise, we'd be out laying in the sun, instead of being on the computer umpteen hours each day.

I can't tell you how many emails I answer each day from people on this board, who want some information, but don't want to post because they don't want to look dumb.

It really takes up alot of time and energy, but I am happy to help out new people, especially ones who want to understand about this wonderful raw lifestyle, but are slightly afraid to look silly or stupid, because when I first started I was in that same boat, and so many people on this boards helped me.

I'm sorry that any of you feel like I, or anyone isn't a good moderator, but one thing you must understand if you don't understand anything else, is that we are human, will make mistakes, are learning every day, and have a job to do here. Hopefully we can do that job well, every single second of every single day, but if not, then hopefully, we will be given forgiveness for not being perfect 100% of the time.

RP, I think you a a wonderful moderator!!! You do an excellent job at welcoming newcomers, myself included. I feel so bad that we made you and other moderators feel bad. You deserve a lot more! Thank you for being so caring and thank you for spending your time & energy on maintaining this board. I really really admire your effort and work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

With love,
Linda

[paleogirl]

Paleogirl, first thing in the morning does not gurantee that your digestion from the previous day is complete. In particular, if you eat some heavy stuff the day before, it will still be digesting in the morning. Especially, if you ate meat. So, if you have fruit first thing in the morning, you will experience bloating.

Gosia

Thanks for the suggestion, but I didn't have meat (so frustrating that the original post was deleted (edited: see it was reprinted, thanks!)) - this bloating and foggy-headedness was during being 100% raw (vegan). If one's stomach isn't empty after 9 hours sleep and nothing but salad the night before, when is it considered empty? :( Anyway, aren't we told eating fruit 3 or 4 hours after other foods is 'safe'?

Also, the BIG concern for me was the foggy-head. To me this sounds and feels more like a blood sugar issue than digestion.

[paleogirl]

What did you eat when you went fruit-free. This is an issue for me but noone will talk to me about it. They just tell me that raw is different. What did you eat, specifically? Also( I feel a little dumb) what is sashimi? I posted about adding fish as a transition and my post was removed. I would love to see what you eat and maybe we can support each other in living grain and fruit free or at least reduced...

Hi Mel,

Sashimi is just raw fish (sushi being rice with fish or veg). For the last 4 or 5 days I've been eating my usual raw diet but with the addition of one piece of wild salmon/tuna, much like when I was doing 90% raw in April (except minus fruiit). Most days I've had an avocado, salads with baby spinach, alfalfa sprouts, baby toms, my regular green juice, a few sprouted almonds, olive oil. Pretty much the same as 100% raw except no fruit (minus a small lemon in my juice) and a little fresh (yet cooked right now) fish. Planning to switch the fish to raw asap to maintain the enzyme factor. PM me if you want more details, I have been using fitday to track my intake.

[paleogirl]

Hi there,

I don't think that it is advisable to go fruit free, grain free yes, fruit free no. Fruit is our natural food. There is no doubt about it. Vegetables do not supply us with enough calories and meat causes cancer (read The China Study by T. Colin Campbell. Please check out some of the following websites to learn more.

www.foodnsport.com (the FAQ section)
www.rawschool.com
www.rawfoodexplained.com

Take care,

Audrey
www.rawhealing.com

Thanks Audrey, I appreciate your thoughs, but suppose I am hypoglycemic or diabetic? I KNOW how my body feels after fruit. BAD! :( At the end of the day, fruit has sugar, and my body is reacting very negatively to that aspect. I wouldn't wish that feeling on anyone! The whole day is spent living in a bubble if I have even a bite of apple. Since a big part of going raw is supposed to be listening to your body, I'm going to trust it on this one, for now. I appreciate for most fruit is a healthy food, and I certainly intend to add it back just ASAP, but right now it feels like poison. After 12 years as an undiagnosed Celiac, I have learnt to trust my body when it's trying to tell me something!

[paleogirl]

I would like to know exactly what you were eating as well.

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but do you eat hemp nuts? If not, do you think that would help you in the amino acid to protein category since you feel you need more than you are currently getting? Maybe you can try hemp nuts out for awhile and if you see no difference, it may be possible that amino acids to protein isn't what is the matter. But if it helps then, Yeah!

Personally when I consume hemp to get more amino acids, I feel better and it really helps my mood also. My husband even teases me that hemp makes me high because I laugh more and am way happier than usual when I make sure I incorporate it into my diet.

Other than that.... all I can think of is that maybe you need to watch out for food combining? Or detox because, you said you were raw on and off for a few months. A lot of people, once they go off raw and then go back to it go through the icky physical transition and detox again each time they change their diet back. That may be something to consider.

I hope you find the solution you want and need!

Rawkinloc, thanks for reprinting! Appreciated, (sorry I didn't see you'd done this before I posted other replies!). I'm still confused why it was deleted in the first place, but of course this is the choice of the mods. Just hoping I didn't upset anyone. I like this board and feel bad if I got anyone upset. :confused:

Luna Lin - thanks. Detox of course has crossed my mind, and I definitely went through some detox symptoms before the fruit thing got bad. The problem seemed very specifically related to fruit consumption though - ie: eat a little, instant brain fog. The exact same way I feel if I eat any grains (due to celiac) and any soy, dairy, yeast or starchy veg (due to IgA intolerances to them). I guess it's just the way my body choses to tell me what it's struggling with.

As for what I eat with no grains and no fruit: any non-starchy veggies, non-sweet fruits (avocadoes, tomatoes, etc.). Some nuts, cacao, seeds. Flax crackers! Green juices. And for the time being, fish too. My previous 'standard' cooked diet had, for over a year, been strictly without any grains, dairy, soy or yeast, so raw doesn't seem restrictive at all to me, in actual fact, it opened up a whole new world. Without grains or dairy, I imagined never having crunchy crackers or smooth creamy dips again. Obviously with raw I can! Flax crackers and dips made from nuts, etc. And cheesecake?! :D Obviously adding some fruit back will rock, but until then, I actually have a WIDER variety of diet than I have for the past 15 months.

[paleogirl]

By the way - EVERYONE... goodness me, I'm sorry to cause so much trouble!! :o I only started this thread out of confusion, I was certainly not trying to rattle any cages. I think the main point of my original post (kindly reprinted by the mods) was that I really feel 100% raw is RIGHT and I want your help getting there. However great I feel right now on 90%, I'm continually drawn to the idea of 100%. The fruit thing is a hurdle, and I appreciate everyone's suggestions. The s*shimi thing was MY suggestion as a transition because I really believe 90% raw vegan with 10% raw fish is preferable (on the enzyme, live food front) to 90% raw vegan with 10% cooked whatever.

I don't expect commited vegans to celebrate my suggestion of eating something they wouldn't, but I would hope the raw community would give a very eager yet struggling future rawbie a hand up. Thanks to all who have. :)

[Halo Aglow]

paleogirl, so what do you think about trying out hemp nuts? Have you read up on the benefits and nutritional value?

Rawkinlocs and RP and other mods, woooooo moderating is a hard payless job! :D And I definitely respect you because of your willingless to take on that task. I so feel y'all on how you feel about what exactly to do to a post and then it seeming like it gets questioned no matter what you do! A couple of years back I had a psychic forum and geez it was tough trying to keep everyone happy. Many times it was emotionally draining! Big hugs to you all.

[mel123]

thank you for your attention rawkinlocs....I see that paleogirl has answered my question....I am having a similar prob and was a bit desperate to get an answer from her....

[Gosia]

Paleogirl, below is an example of a person with a similar problem (bloating after eating fruit) who dealt with the problem in a matter of weeks, without removing the fruit from their diet, by applying simple rules:

(these quotes are from http://www.livingnutrition.com/fwn/read.php?1,1310,1533)

bloating?!!!!
Posted by: coyote (IP Logged)
Date: May 2, 2006 02:04PM


Hi, I try to be fruitarian since one year now I am in and out for always the same reason, After some days ,I am bloating so munch, that I can not attach my clothes. Is that retention of water?
I am vegetarian. Same things happen with raw vegetable juice. A chineese doctor told me ,that I will have always need to cook my vegetable and add a little chicken because My systeme need fire.
But I know that I am ready for fruitarian now , I crave for fruit. I have a condition call Hypoglycemia reactional. mean after eating "sugar or fruits" an half hour later I go down, tired and no energy. This was diagnostic many year ago after medical test. So they told me that I will have to eat animal proteines.


So please someone , help me to become the fruitarian that I think I am.
Thanks

coyote

Re: bloating......
Posted by: Dave Klein - Moderator (IP Logged)
Date: May 5, 2006 08:32AM

Clean out on water and juices, get rest and eat mono meals with no fatty foods until health is restored. If juices make matters worse, shun the juices and stick with water and/or solid fruits. Or eat fruit with one green vegetable: celery or lettuce. Fasting is the fasted way to health. Read Fasting for Renewal of Life. [www.livingnutrition.com]

Dave

Re: bloating......
Posted by: coyote (IP Logged)
Date: June 5, 2006 02:16PM

It is a month now since my post on bloating,
I am back since 2 weeks on fruit only,
What I did is : get out of grapefruit whatever if there where organic and fresh, I realize they where the cause of my bloating for what reason? I do not know, I notice lemon too mess my system, I am going good so far with more sugary and tropical fruits, papayas, bananas, dates some fresh squeez organic oranges, I make fresh smoothies whith 2 oranges juice, 1 organic banana, 2 dates, 4 or 5 frozen organic frozen stawberrys, frozen black cherrys,some ice and blend togheter. This his one of my formula that I found for my self. And Whatever I am suppose to take care of sugary fruits or any suggary things because of this hypoglycemia thing. I see it is the opposite, increasing the suggary fruits gave me the right amount of glucose I was looking for all my life, I feel incredible, and I do not have any sacky or fatigue symptoms that I suffer when I try to do less sweet raw food, I am out of that craving for that "something" who will calm me down.I need 2 smoothies a day, and I breakfast on 2 fresh orange juice.
Voila, for the moment, I am back to fruitarian, when I was sure 2 weeks ago that it was so sad that I can not make it.
I am stuburn, I tooke a brake, analyse, take notes about witch fruit I feel bloated, and find for myself the fruit who is not maby for the moment suit for me.And try again.
I know now , it will take attention and perseverance,to draw my personnal map. But I am going tho do it, and I lucky to have a path, a journey.
Coyote


All the best,
Gosia.

[Revvell]

One (like mine) was an advertisement, and one was Revvell's and I was wrong, it was about her teleclasses, and I thought it was an advertisement, and it wasn't it was about her class, I didn't understand the difference.

But so far, I have deleted that one post by Revvell, (and Revvell if you are reading this, I do wish to say that I appologize for that, because it was my error, not anything you did)

Thank you RP. I appreciate the courtesy of the acknowledgment and the courage of your public response. No fears; all is good on this end. :)

Revvell

[rawpriestess]

Thank you all for your kind words, they mean so very much to me.

((((((((((((RAW HUGS all around ))))))))))))))))))))))

[honeybee joy]

Hello paleogirl,
I read your original post, and I apologize if I am repeating what someone else has said, but you said that when you ate fruit, your head got foggy and when you keep a high protein diet you feel much better.
Not everyone can eat everything. If that is what is working for you, try replacing your salmon with spirulina or chlorella, it is 60-70% protein. You also might have felt better due to the omega fatty acids in the fish. You don't need to eat animal products to get your protein and EFA needs.
This is just my intuitive opinion, but I think our bodies remember what foods can provide us with what it is needing, even if it is not good for you. Like for instance, when heart transplants are done, the person who gets the new heart will start to crave the foods that the previous heart owner liked, even if it is something that the new person never liked. That might have been why your body was calling for the fish. When you get that calling again, try replacing it with the sprirulina and cholorella, and some vegan Omega Fatty Acids. I have learned that we have to re-train our bodies, just like our minds.

Chlorella and Spirulina will provide you with your protein needs. A omega fatty acid supplement will provide you with your Essential Fatty Acid needs.
If a lower glycemic raw vegan diet is what your body is calling for, then what your waiting for, give it to it! :)
If you find that you do not like chlorella or spirulina, there are fun ways to hide it, like in avocado, or salad dressings.
My body calls for lower protein needs. I couldn't figure out why I could not eat lots of nuts and high protein plant protein, till I found out that my body actually gets acidic when I eat protein. I can eat a little, but not boat loads of it. You might be able to just eat smaller amounts of fruit, but lots of high protein plant matter.
I for the most part eat a low glycemic raw diet, and I eat low fruit, and high veggies ( I have blood sugar issues), and I seem to feel the best for it. Others feel better on lots of fruit.
Everyone is different. Listen to your body! And most of all, Have lots of fun!

[Pailani]

Not everyone can eat everything.


Just curious - but if a raw diet is healing and puts everything to rights in our bodies, and if all species have just one ideal diet (you never hear of cheetahs who can't tolerate a particular species of animal, for example) - then would it be reasonable to expect that our individual needs, intolerances, allergies, etc, would disappear on a raw diet? And that we'd be moving closer to whatever the ideal diet is for humans, so that, even if we were once intolerant or allergic to it, eventually we'd come to be able to eat it?




Like for instance, when heart transplants are done, the person who gets the new heart will start to crave the foods that the previous heart owner liked, even if it is something that the new person never liked.

Wow! That's amazing!

[rawpriestess]

Pailani,


I think you are right about this, I think that our food allergies etc, will go away, and we will be able to eat anything and everything that humans are meant to eat.

also, I had a friend, who had two transplants, kidney and pancreas, from someone, her food tastes changed quite a bit after that, she started loving beer and chips, I think she was in her late 30's and her transplants came from a 20 year old male, she never liked beer or chips before, LOL, she found out from his family, that he LOVED beer and chips and ate them every day.

so what they say may be true.

[honeybee joy]

Dear Mods,

I just had the opportunity to read some of the stuff that you wrote about your duties as a mod. I have to admit that I had been staying away because I felt rejected on this board. I had lots of problems that many probably did not have the answers to. I am pretty sensitive myself, but just knowing that you all do care about the board and the people in it, I am not worried about that anymore. Delete my post anytime you want! ;) You don't have to explain, I know you guys have a good reason for it. Thank you for caring. Thank you all for the wonderful dedication that you have to this board. Keep up the good work. I am glad this worked out, I hated avoiding this board, it is a nice place to come to.

[Tirza]

I also heard of one of the first heart transplants having this experience. He was a distinguished banker, a refined, cultured man, a family man. After the transplant he displayed a volatile temper, coarse habits and became totally unlikeable. They found out that his heart had come from a (I think) murderer who had been in prison. EEK

[honeybee joy]

Originally Posted By Pailani
Just curious - but if a raw diet is healing and puts everything to rights in our bodies, and if all species have just one ideal diet (you never hear of cheetahs who can't tolerate a particular species of animal, for example) - then would it be reasonable to expect that our individual needs, intolerances, allergies, etc, would disappear on a raw diet? And that we'd be moving closer to whatever the ideal diet is for humans, so that, even if we were once intolerant or allergic to it, eventually we'd come to be able to eat it


I could agree with that. Ummmm.... these are just my thoughts, but I know that some damage that is done to the body in rats takes some times several generations to reverse, even with a raw diet. I could be wrong, and open to other opinions, but I know when I eat lots of fruit, I am brain foggy and cannot function. I am depressed, and can't get out to even walk my dogs. This has allowed me to walk 1/2 to a whole mile a day. Do I have a bit of pineapple every once in awhile, you bet ya, but I have insulin resisitance, and I have to be extra carful to keep that balanced. I am really happy that some can eat all raw, wish it could be that simple for me, but this is really what is working well for me. I don't like to say anyone is wrong, I just like to say we all have different opinions, I hope that you are right, that I can reverse all of my illnesses, but I want to be cautious. My pituitary is not working right now, so my illnesses MAY be one of those that cannot be reversed. I am going to have faith and believe, though! Miracles do happen, especially with raw! :D

[rawpriestess]

honeybee joy, please ask all the questions you want, we may not always be able to answer right away, but we do try to get to as many posts as we can each and every day.

thanks for you sweet words, they are so appreciated.

[Cinnamon]

I thought I'd add this link to a thread where Alissa talks about raw fish (Sashimi) just as an FYI. Here is the link followed by her response to this, I personally agree with her completely and just wanted to pass this information on.

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2931

Alissa: "Ok so its bad enough to eat cooked food and feel lousy the next morning but anyone thinking of trying raw meat or fish really needs to be careful of this. i would highly recommend NOT doing this. There are so many reasons not to eat raw meat. One is because as bad cooked meat is, at least your killing a lot of the bacteria and disease that is carried by the animal or fish. But when you eat it raw your opening yourself up to a host of problems. This is really a dangerous practice in my opinion so anyone thinking about this, don’t just go and eat at your local store or pick up some raw meat to try. Its really too long of a list to write at the moment, but i just wanted to caution you all against this as i personally do not believe this is a healthy thing to do in any situation. You can really make yourself sick and do some long term damage with raw meat."

[moonstone523]

I've noticed posts being deleted on this board even when they do not undermine vegan 'doctrine'. It is highly discourteous to delete posts without extending the common courtesy of notifying, and briefly explaining the reason to, the writer of the post. On ANY other board I contribute to, there would (quite rightly) be absolute uproar at this behaviour.

If a post is in deliberate contravention of the board rules/ethos, then that is a different matter, but if a post is sincere in its line of questioning/discussion then what does the raw vegan community have to gain by pushing that person away (by deleting their post) rather than engaging in civil and adult discussion with them? A cogent and rational explanation of the reason why their post is deemed inappropriate for the board might even have that poster rethinking their own dietary philosophy and possibly alligning with raw veganism, whereas the current behaviour will only serve to alienate posters.

What is so ironic is that, in stealthily ensuring 'everybody toes the line', on whatever basis, rather than mods openly engaging in constructive dialogue with posters, the net result is that an atmosphere of distrust and suspicion is created towards mods, along with an air of paranoia being unwittingly propogated by those doing the deleting - if the mods deleting posts cannot extend the basic courtesy of telling posters why their post(s) are deemed to be inappropriate, then one is left questioning the motives and, dare I say it, even the emotional stability, of those doing this - what is it they are so desperate to hide/deny/obscure from the public? In short, if the raw (vegan, in the case of this board) message is to be more widely embraced then anyone discourteously and silently deleting posts, in a cloak-and-dagger manner, is only going to be shooting themselves, the board, and the raw vegan message in the foot. It's discourteous, smacks of paranoia, and is entirely distasteful. I know that many of you reading this post will be quietly nodding your heads in as much as you've experienced the silent slashing of your own posts at some point. If you haven't yet, then just give it time, your time will come.

I very much welcome responses to this post, should it be deemed 'permissible' by the sacred moderation covenant ;) (I'm keeping a copy, incidentally - oh yes, I've learned from my experiences here on this board), but please don't respond by lamely harping on about how this is a vegan board and that's the reason - the truth is, I've seen many posts (some mine, many belonging to others) which in no way infringed upon vegan doctrine, yet were slashed from the board with gay abandon and no explanation given, either publicly or in private.

It is such a pity - this boards members are, by and large, a very open, friendly, and sincere group of people (and that extends to many of the mods, too, some of whom I have a great deal of respect for) - the polar opposite of the message the aforementioned behaviour propogates, be it intentionally or otherwise.


J.


I agree 100%. :cool:

[moonstone523]

I've noticed posts being deleted on this board even when they do not undermine vegan 'doctrine'. It is highly discourteous to delete posts without extending the common courtesy of notifying, and briefly explaining the reason to, the writer of the post. On ANY other board I contribute to, there would (quite rightly) be absolute uproar at this behaviour.

If a post is in deliberate contravention of the board rules/ethos, then that is a different matter, but if a post is sincere in its line of questioning/discussion then what does the raw vegan community have to gain by pushing that person away (by deleting their post) rather than engaging in civil and adult discussion with them? A cogent and rational explanation of the reason why their post is deemed inappropriate for the board might even have that poster rethinking their own dietary philosophy and possibly alligning with raw veganism, whereas the current behaviour will only serve to alienate posters.

What is so ironic is that, in stealthily ensuring 'everybody toes the line', on whatever basis, rather than mods openly engaging in constructive dialogue with posters, the net result is that an atmosphere of distrust and suspicion is created towards mods, along with an air of paranoia being unwittingly propogated by those doing the deleting - if the mods deleting posts cannot extend the basic courtesy of telling posters why their post(s) are deemed to be inappropriate, then one is left questioning the motives and, dare I say it, even the emotional stability, of those doing this - what is it they are so desperate to hide/deny/obscure from the public? In short, if the raw (vegan, in the case of this board) message is to be more widely embraced then anyone discourteously and silently deleting posts, in a cloak-and-dagger manner, is only going to be shooting themselves, the board, and the raw vegan message in the foot. It's discourteous, smacks of paranoia, and is entirely distasteful. I know that many of you reading this post will be quietly nodding your heads in as much as you've experienced the silent slashing of your own posts at some point. If you haven't yet, then just give it time, your time will come.

I very much welcome responses to this post, should it be deemed 'permissible' by the sacred moderation covenant ;) (I'm keeping a copy, incidentally - oh yes, I've learned from my experiences here on this board), but please don't respond by lamely harping on about how this is a vegan board and that's the reason - the truth is, I've seen many posts (some mine, many belonging to others) which in no way infringed upon vegan doctrine, yet were slashed from the board with gay abandon and no explanation given, either publicly or in private.

It is such a pity - this boards members are, by and large, a very open, friendly, and sincere group of people (and that extends to many of the mods, too, some of whom I have a great deal of respect for) - the polar opposite of the message the aforementioned behaviour propogates, be it intentionally or otherwise.


J.


I agree! :cool:

This is nothing personal to the current moderators. They are just following the rules. But I would love to this place to be open for any type of discussion.

People are scared to speak their mind here. It is obvious with the "Popular but true" thread about the Master Cleanse. So many people came out and said, "oh, thank you for coming out and saying something."

I don't like any society where people's opinions are supressed. It is a form of control, and it makes you wonder what the rulers are really up to.

I am a member of another forum, or better yet family, where if a thread gets nuked, there is uproar. Here, people are too afraid to say anything.

[Revvell]

I agree! :cool:

This is nothing personal to the current moderators. They are just following the rules. But I would love to this place to be open for any type of discussion.

Then it wouldn't be in support of raw vegans and the work of the mods would be even more than it is.


People are scared to speak their mind here.

Some, maybe yet, if you look at the amount of posts... many are here for raw vegan support which this forum is about.



I don't like any society where people's opinions are supressed. It is a form of control, and it makes you wonder what the rulers are really up to. The "rulers" here are up to keeping this forum in line with the mission statement. Any business that is thriving has a mission statement and that business is held to it. This forum has a mission statement and if people don't wish to abide by it.... so be it. It's not about opinions being suppressed. People can always express them ~ it's about how they do it and on what topic. Unlike many forums, there's a place here for classifieds and topics outside of the original intent.


Here, people are too afraid to say anything.

If that were true then why the volume of threads and posts? You just expressed your opinion as did arky. *shrugs* Now what? Here's the thing, if someone does not like the intent of this forum, they can go somewhere else where they get to chat about anything they wish. It's called freedom of choice. As has been stated many times, one doesn't go to a meat-eating support forum to talk to people about being raw vegan.

I belong to other forums as well including one on making jewelry, tribe.net, myspace.com, etc. I chat about raw on two out of three. I do NOT chat about my food choices on the jewelry forum because that's not what the intent of the forum is. The intent of this forum is in support of raw vegans and those who would like more info on it. It's a microcosm of the macrocosm in the food world.

If all forums were open to anything anyone wanted to chat about, then where would one find the support one wants/needs on specific topics?

Have a funtabulous day, 'k?

Revvell

[rawnora]

I appreciate all the hard work that the moderators do here to keep this forum friendly and respectful. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to deal with the fracases (fracii? :)) that inevitably erupt when meat-eating is discussed.

Because of the controversial nature of this topic, it can be very difficult for a genuine truth-seeker to get accurate information. There are very few health forums that aren't either staunchly vegan or very supportive of meat eating. In fact, the only place I know of where both sides are discussed unemotionally, strictly as a health issue, is my discussion list. Interestingly, it hardly ever comes up, I think because most people there are pretty invested in and comfortable with their vegan lifestyles. Also, perhaps the fact that the topic is not 'taboo' takes away some of its appeal. When it does come up, we talk about it calmly and nobody gets upset (mostly because I decided early on to not put up with any shenanigans). It's a different kind of format which is much easier to moderate than a huge forum like this one, however.

Being vegan and all-raw is what leads to optimal health but along the way we have to make compromises. Some animal foods are more healthful than some vegan foods, just like some cooked foods are better than some raw foods. If health is the goal, it's important to be able to discuss both the negative and positive aspects of all foods in order to make the right choices.

Thanks again to the moderators for keeping this a nice place to visit.

Kindly,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[paleogirl]

Thanks all! :) Gosia and Honeybee in particular, your posts were very helpful. I am toying with 3 different ways to approach my problem right now. In order of preference:

1) Try low-glycemic high-protein raw (subbing sushi with hemp protein, spirulina, etc.)

2) Try high-fruit, fat-free for a while. Although fruit alone gives me brain fog, it is the fruit/nut combo that bloats me the worst, and even without nuts, my raw diet is pretty high fat. I'm waiting on the results of a candida test, so if that's positive I may try this route.

3) Ride it out. We all detox in different ways and considering I spent the first 30 years of my life as an undiagnosed Celiac, consuming things daily that I was highly allergic/intolerant to, this could perhaps just be my body's version of detox. I've read cases of people reliving old injuries/illnesses in brief as the body pushes the associated toxins out. It therefore makes sense that with that much poison (aka gluten) in my system for that long, my first complete cleanse is gonna bring out some nasty symptoms. It's interesting to me that my feelings after 2 weeks 100% raw were VERY like my reaction to gluten (depression, brain fog, chronic fatigue along with the bloating and breaking out)... Crazy theory?!

[RawNut]

Ride it out. We all detox in different ways and considering I spent the first 30 years of my life as an undiagnosed Celiac, consuming things daily that I was highly allergic/intolerant to, this could perhaps just be my body's version of detox. I've read cases of people reliving old injuries/illnesses in brief as the body pushes the associated toxins out. It therefore makes sense that with that much poison (aka gluten) in my system for that long, my first complete cleanse is gonna bring out some nasty symptoms. It's interesting to me that my feelings after 2 weeks 100% raw were VERY like my reaction to gluten (depression, brain fog, chronic fatigue along with the bloating and breaking out)... Crazy theory?!

It sounds like you hit the nail right on the head! It's not a crazy theory at all. In fact, I've read that people will often even CRAVE the very thing they are detoxing.

Good luck to you,

Craig

[lissomllama]

Paleogirl, I know that you didn't mean for this to get blown out of proportion like this and it can feel odd when people keep posting about it after you've said that but I do have some advice for you if you don't mind: If you want more protein you need more amino acids (as othes have said) and your body will make usable protein from these amino acids. So to get more amino acids in a raw, vegan way, I suggest you eat alot more dark, leafy greens and nuts and seeds of all sorts. Keep in mind that even fruits and vegetables have some amino acids that you need even though it is in small amounts, these things are needed for a complete and healthy raw, vegan diet. I know that fruit is making you feel sick right now but this is a major detox symptom and you just have to ride it out and deal with it if you're ever going to make progress with raw veganism. The fruit or any other raw, vegan food is not what is making you sick, the other previous toxins in your body and whichever more are still being added are what are causing these sick feelings. Detox symptoms can and usually do last longer than a month and if you can just eat a balance of everything (fruits, edible veggies, nuts and seeds) and keep it up for as long as it takes and then take it further for your health, you'll get over this hump if you can just stay raw vegan. If you choose to eat meat then I can't help you except to say this: That is not raw veganism and therefore, not healthy and will eventually only lead to failure of this lifestyle. I know that sounds harsh but it is a truth in my mind and many others' here. It isn't our business what you eat unless you make it so. I wish you the best of luck and I hope you can stay raw vegan to get over the detox hump and meet your goals, if not, then I hope you find whatever path it is you feel you are to follow but don't let the SAD or detox frame of mind influence this.

To Rawkinlocs, Rawpriestess, Revvell and all the other mods (Alissa, Sweetgoddess etc.) that I haven't really met yet: You're all so friendly and awesome and this place is great. It is about time that we have a board that sticks to its purpose and does it in a friendly way. I've never felt a hint of rudeness or 'lording over' from any of you and if I did, I'd be being far too sensitive and dramatic about things. If people don't like the rules or mission statements here then they can leave. This forum has been compared to a totalitarian society :rolleyes: full of overlords and that is going too far, no one if forced to be here, we have all come looking for his place and furthermore, don't have to pay a thing for all these cushy buttons and options and in fact, someone is paying out of their own pocket so that we can each have our own journals and learn about better health and that is priceless. That being said, we are all equals and the mods know that and they are doing awesome for such a thankless job where the lines of what is 'ok' and 'not ok' are often very obscured. I'm sorry you have to keep reiterating yourselves and constantly repeating the mission statement and reminding those who won't go to the search tab and find things out or even read the rules. You're all an inspiration.

[Revvell]

To Rawkinlocs, Rawpriestess, Revvell and all the other mods (Alissa, Sweetgoddess etc.)

Thank you lissomllama but all the others are mods, I'm not. Just have a mouth on me sometimes :eek:

[lissomllama]

Oh, looks like I have some reasearch to do as well! You're still rawsome though, lol.

[Revvell]

Oh, looks like I have some reasearch to do as well! You're still rawsome though, lol.


Thank you hun, as are you. Thank you for including me in such a wondrous group though. :)

Revvell