He thinks I don't and can't get enough protien

[cheflissy]

I was a little shocked today when I walked into the staff breakroom at lunch and pulle out my rather large salad and started eating on it. I had barely taken one bite before one of the guys in there starts questioning me on my protien intake and how he noticed that I "must be addicted to salads." Well, yes actually I am addicted to salads. They're raw and that's what I eat. No, I didn't tell him that, but I did feel rather offended that he lit into me (not angry, though) about how I could never get enough protien from just veggies and how I MUST have at least 30 grams of protien a day to be healthy. Ok...now isn't 30 grams of protien really excessive? I just took a nutrition class a few months back for school and I don't think my rda was that much, but far less than that. He kept going on and on about how veggies won't ever give me enough protien. He just couldn't fathom how I don't feel tired all the time and don't have any energy. I did't know what to say to him so I kept quiet. I was just so shocked that he said that. No one has ever questioned me like that before and I never really would have expected it since I work at a health food store. Most people even at work that I've run into and who have asked about it are really curious and supportive. What do you say to someone like this? And how do you back what you say that greens and veggies and nuts really do provide enough protien? I mentioned that the darker the green the more protien it has and he said he knew that but that it still wasn't enough protien. I was a little blown away by the whole situation.

Sorry that was so long. Just a little fustrated by him and being in a health food store too. C'mon!!! I realise not everyone who works there supports a healthy lifestyle. But seriously!! Shouldn't you at least be a little more supportive of others lifestyle choices and not go on and on about how they'll never get enough protien? :mad:

Melissa

[Eveleaf]

Hi Melissa!

This is by far the #1 question (after "What?") that I get, too. I always stick to two main points, and I don't argue, I just ask them to think about this: 1) Our bodies don't make protein from animal protein, they make protein from amino acids, which are lavishly and abundantly provided by raw plant food, and 2) Some of the largest and strongest animals on the planet (ie elephants, gorillas) eat no animal protein, only plant food, and clearly their bodies MAKE the protein from the amino acids in plant food, just like us.

I know it's hard, but TRY not to get intimidated. Often times I've noticed that those that *challenge* me the strongest are actually the MOST interested in the raw lifestyle. They really WANT to do it, but want to make sure it's rock solid before they leap. It feels to me like they are attacking me, but really in fact they are preparing their hearts and minds to accept it, and perhaps even try it themselves.

Cheers, and good luck!
Eve

[heabrook]

Some people just don't understand. The best thing to do is arm yourself with the proper knowledge so that you can answer their questions properly.

After I found out that I was pregnant, I would read excerpts from books etc saying that you HAVE to be sure to get enough protein. I have even been doubting myself, even though I know that I am getting enough from my plant based diet.... but society absolutely drills it into you that you have to get enough protein, pregnant or not.... I have always been a vegetarian and have been vegan for 10 years but have never worried about protein intake until I became pregnant... Even now, it should not even cross my mind.

Especially what Eveleaf said (great points).. look at all the animals that only eat plant based foods that are very strong and healthy.

When you cook food, it breaks the amino acid chains that make up protein. Cooked meat does not have that much protein in it... And we cannot eat raw meat because we are not carnivores. I doubt people even digest the protein in cooked meats properly because it is not in the proper form for our bodies to absorb thus the body has to work harder at digesting it.

[rawpriestess]

Wow, how interesting, Well, I suppose it depends on how he is asking you.


It sounds like he is interested in nutrition and is concerned by your choices, I have found that whenever someone is concerned about MY personal choices it isn't because they care about me, it is because they aren't sure of THEIR choices.

So, no matter what you say or do you will NOT be able to convince him of anything.

If you wish to answer his questions, then do so, if you don't then you can easily, say something like, "Gosh I teach classes in this and I'd be happy to sign you up for this weekend, It's $1,000.00 "LOL works for me all of the time, and IF he does want to pay you $1,000, then you can do some reading and teach him, otherwise you can say, "It's a secret that I only tell my students" again, works for me, I personally don't want to take the time to attempt to defend or justify or explain my choices to anyone, and I certainly won't to someone who is taking up my precious time.

[Spectatrix]

RDA for protein is about 0.8 g per kg of body weight. My RDA for protein, as a 150-lb woman (actually a bit less now...) is about 55 g. That having been said, you can easily get enough protein in a raw food diet, if you eat nuts and seeds. If you don't, it might be a bit harder.

Regarding the amino acid issue, every time I hear something like "our bodies don't make protein from animal protein, they make protein from amino acids, which are lavishly and abundantly provided by raw plant food" (and it's said a lot on this board, just using Eveleaf's quote as an example), it sounds to me like the person thinks that plants have free-floating amino acids in them. That is absolutely incorrect. Plant proteins are composed of amino acids and peptides just like animal proteins are and still have to be broken down by the digestive system to be utilized. Plant proteins are every bit as complex as animal proteins, though they're usually low in or lacking one or more essential amino acid.

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Melissa,

Share some stories about some famous althelets that don't eat meat and still get enough protein to be world champs:

Henry Aaron – All Time Baseball Home Run Champion
Dave Scott - 6-time winner of the Ironman Triathlon (the only man to win it more than twice!)
Sixto Linares - World Record holder in the 24-hour Triathlon
Paavo Nurmi - 20 World Records and 9 Olympic Medals in distance running
Stan Price - World Record holder in the Bench Press
Andreas Cahling - Mr. International Body Building Champion
Roy Hilligan - Mr. America Body Building Champion
Ridgely Abele - 8-Time National Champion in Karate

http://www.healthfree.com/nutritional_power_myth.html#1

Tell whoever is asking you that if these champions have strength and endurance, that they must be onto something, so you have done some research and learned some very interesting things about protein. And tell them if they are interested, you could e-mail them some of the articles and research information that you have found:

Protein: Fact & Fiction - Larry Spencer
http://www.healthfree.com/nutritional_power_myth.html#1

Protein and Propaganda - by Michael Dye
http://www.all-creatures.org/cb/a-protein.html

Where do you get your protein?
http://www.healthpromoting.com/Articles/articles/protein.htm

Protein is Parts
http://www.dsiegel.com/wiwd/diet/protein.html

Proteins – How much and from where
http://chrysalisyog.homestead.com/nutsprout.html

Alissa Cohen
http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3708

Howard Lyman
http://www.madcowboy.com/

[NoGMO!]

I walked into the staff breakroom at lunch and pulle out my rather large salad and started eating on it. I had barely taken one bite before one of the guys in there starts questioning me on my protien intake and how he noticed that I "must be addicted to salads."

He just couldn't fathom how I don't feel tired all the time and don't have any energy.


hmmm.... jealous maybe??? :p

[moonstone523]

heabrooke-

people can in fact eat raw meat. westerners just tend not to eat it.

i've seen many a'dishes overflooring with fresh blood and flresh.

I'm happy to stick to my (raw) peas and carrots. :cool:

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi again, Melissa,

(continuation from my thread above)
And here are some Body Builders . . . meat free and looking good and strong - guess they are getting all the protein they need :D

Nutmeg / Storm
http://www.thegardendiet.com/storm.html - photos
http://www.thegardendiet.com/anti-aging/ - before and after pics
http://www.thegardendiet.com/anti-aging/intheraw.html - in the buff

Shannon Oliver
http://www.thegardendiet.com/shannon.html

Dr. Tim Trader
http://www.vegetarianusa.com/rawenergy/

Dr. Graham - Raw Foods Athlete Coach; has trained professional and Olympic athletes from almost every sport
http://foodnsport.com/

Scott Brodie
http://www.rawfood.com/brodie.html

Matthew Grace
http://matthewgrace.homestead.com/bio.html

Robbie Hazely
http://www.raw.veganbodybuilding.org/

Roger Haeske
http://www.superbeingdiet.com/

Janie
http://www.ringlet.org/Janie-8-25-04FlexPhotos.html - after
http://www.ringlet.org/Historical_Photos_of_Janie.html - before

Charlie
http://www.charliesgym.info/default.php

[Coriander74]

Thank you so much for all of this information. My dad is concerned about the protein-intake, he says that I need more than one kind of protein. I tell him that there are different kinds between nuts and seeds and leaves. I appreciate all this information that I can pass on :)

[Shan]

I was reading somewhere lately (possibly on this site, I'm not sure) about how we're all so concerned about protein intake, but in this country we're actually getting TOO much protein. Apparently a potato has the lowest amount of protein (10%) from a vegetable, but if we lived ONLY on potatoes, although we would end up with other vitamin deficiencies, we would NOT become protein deficient. I thought that was interesting.

[Spectatrix]

I was reading somewhere lately (possibly on this site, I'm not sure) about how we're all so concerned about protein intake, but in this country we're actually getting TOO much protein. Apparently a potato has the lowest amount of protein (10%) from a vegetable, but if we lived ONLY on potatoes, although we would end up with other vitamin deficiencies, we would NOT become protein deficient. I thought that was interesting.
Oh yes, most Americans get 2-3 times their protein RDA. Meat has 8 grams of protein per ounce, milk has 1 g protein/oz. (8 g. for a typical 8 oz. serving). 1 egg has about 6 g of protein. As you can see, it's VERY easy to meet the protein requirements on a SAD diet. Extra protein does affect calcium absorption, but is otherwise fairly harmless unless you have kidney problems (the main byproduct of protein digestion is uric acid, the main component of urine).

[berrymarymac]

I get that all the time from people. I just ignore them usually. Some people are not as open-minded as we wish, and don't want to listen! It's their loss

[DavidZaneMason]

Ha! For such a prevalent fear....has anyone actually SEEN an American with a diagnosed protein deficiency? If you do, they will be tending a herd of Jackalopes.....LOL.

-David Mason

[RawNut]

heabrooke-

people can in fact eat raw meat. westerners just tend not to eat it.

i've seen many a'dishes overflooring with fresh blood and flresh.

I'm happy to stick to my (raw) peas and carrots. :cool:

The Chef in the restaurant where I used to work is from Thailand and said that sometimes, when they'd kill buffalo, they'd eat the meat right off of it...and it was still twitching! He said it would twitch in their mouths! I'll never forget that! UGG!!

[RawNut]

I was reading somewhere lately (possibly on this site, I'm not sure) about how we're all so concerned about protein intake, but in this country we're actually getting TOO much protein. Apparently a potato has the lowest amount of protein (10%) from a vegetable, but if we lived ONLY on potatoes, although we would end up with other vitamin deficiencies, we would NOT become protein deficient. I thought that was interesting.

You did see it here or in the book: http://rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3708 Helen posted it too.

RawNut

[rawfigure]

I was reading somewhere lately (possibly on this site, I'm not sure) about how we're all so concerned about protein intake, but in this country we're actually getting TOO much protein. Apparently a potato has the lowest amount of protein (10%) from a vegetable, but if we lived ONLY on potatoes, although we would end up with other vitamin deficiencies, we would NOT become protein deficient. I thought that was interesting.

Interesting...and to expand on this. If you drink loads of protein drink (like the bodybuilders do) and you have a Urine test it will generally spill over into the urine. Your Dr will pull you in for more tests, thinking something is wrong. Stop the protein drink, take another test and you would be normal, no protein in urine. It is not supposed to be there...so what does that tell us ?

No worries, eat raw, dark greens loads of tomato's too, and you will be fine.

[sport]

“One farmer says to me, ''You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for it furnishes nothing to make bones with;'' and so he religiously devotes a part of his day to supplying his system with the raw material of bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle”. - Henry David Thoreau

Print this out and laminate it and place it at the front of your desk for all to see.
We cannot blame people for thinking the way that they do. They have been conditioned to think like that and it is our job to recondition them so let's get out there and do our job.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Ya, next time say to him "tell that to the great apes and ox...wonder where they get their strength?" and then leave it at that. Probably best to not get in a big discussion, some people are just looking to argue.

[rawnora]

If you don't have enough ammunition from these great posts, think about how much protein is contained in human mother's milk: 2-4%, depending on the stage of the infant's development. So, when we are growing tissue faster than we will at any other time in our lives, doubling our weight in less than a year, nature provides a food with only a fractional percentage of the amount of protein we are told is necessary. It is no coincidence that our perfect food (fruit) also averages 2-4% protein.

In any event, our bodies don't need protein at all, they need the constituents of protein, or the amino acids. If we get our protein from eating the muscles of other animals, our bodies have to break it down before it can be used. This is a laborious and waste-producing process. In this way, meat eating taps energy rather than supplying it. It's like trying to build a house out of an old house rather than new building materials. When people eat meat and experience 'energy', it's not the creation of energy but its expenditure as the body marshalls its resources to effect digestion. This is stimulation, not energy. It is harmful and leads to enervation, which leads to disease.

These are the arguments I've found most effective in refuting the protein fears.

Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[Spectatrix]

If we get our protein from eating the muscles of other animals, our bodies have to break it down before it can be used. This is a laborious and waste-producing process.
We have to break down the protein from plants too...

[Sharon in Colorado]

Nora thanks for the breast milk analogy. I will remember that and use that around some the protein inquisitive.

[Larue]

He kept going on and on about how veggies won't ever give me enough protien. He just couldn't fathom how I don't feel tired all the time and don't have any energy. I did't know what to say to him

Well, this would have been a perfect thing to say to him, just parrot back, "Yeah, isn't it ineresting that I don't feel tired all the time and have enough energy. I must be getting enough protein......" ;)

Feel strong in yourself and what you are doing. You are proof that you are doing just fine!

[Crystal Rose]

Dear Cheflissy,

I share your frustration -- for some reason some people just can't seem to wrap their brain around the protein issue.

I know what everybody contributed on this thread covers quite a bit on this issue, but I thought I'd add my 2-cents' worth.

There's an MD doctor who said he has NEVER seen a case of ANYONE in the United States have a protein deficiency. According to him, it's FAR more common to have problems stemming from TOO much protein in the diet. We Americans are deficient in most MINERALS, but DEFINITELY NOT protein.

I thoroughly align myself with Alissa's stance on this topic. Both her book and countless previous threads have addressed this issue in detail.

But, in my humble opinion, if someone has made up his or her mind they're going to be closed-minded about this issue, there's not much you can do. And I reiterate that I share your frustration. Sometimes, the best you can do is plant a seed and be a living example.

Love and Light to all on this thread and on this board.

:)

[Pailani]

We have to break down the protein from plants too...

But it's a lot easier for the digestive process to break down greens than meaty muscles, and they say it's even easier to break down fruit.

[sport]

We have to break down the protein from plants too...
I dont think so because it is the amino acids that we get from the plants and these are the building blocks ready to be turned in to human protein

[rawfigure]

If you don't have enough ammunition from these great posts, think about how much protein is contained in human mother's milk: 2-4%, depending on the stage of the infant's development. So, when we are growing tissue faster than we will at any other time in our lives, doubling our weight in less than a year, nature provides a food with only a fractional percentage of the amount of protein we are told is necessary. It is no coincidence that our perfect food (fruit) also averages 2-4% protein.

In any event, our bodies don't need protein at all, they need the constituents of protein, or the amino acids. If we get our protein from eating the muscles of other animals, our bodies have to break it down before it can be used. This is a laborious and waste-producing process. In this way, meat eating taps energy rather than supplying it. It's like trying to build a house out of an old house rather than new building materials. When people eat meat and experience 'energy', it's not the creation of energy but its expenditure as the body marshalls its resources to effect digestion. This is stimulation, not energy. It is harmful and leads to enervation, which leads to disease.

These are the arguments I've found most effective in refuting the protein fears.

Nora
www.RawSchool.com


And this is why I was so tired for so many years. I thought it was my weight training and cardio. It was the high protein diet. I dropped the protein and I am , generally, not tired.

lol..I am tired today but I ran 7.25 miles yesterday and got little sleep last night !! :D

[Spectatrix]

I dont think so because it is the amino acids that we get from the plants and these are the building blocks ready to be turned in to human protein
Essential amino acids are bound up in chains of aminos and peptides (i.e. proteins) whether you're talking about plants or animals. There are "nonstandard" amino acids that are not found in protein, but none of those are necessary in our diet.

I think the point that some people (Alissa included) are trying to make when they say that our body makes proteins from amino acids is that we don't need to consume "complete" proteins as are found primarily among animal products. We need to consume a variety of proteins that, when taken all together, provide us with all of the essential amino acids in sufficient quantities to be used by our body. We don't have to consume several different sources of incomplete protein at a single meal necessarily, but definitely over the course of a day's meals.

I don't believe that plant proteins are any easier to digest than animals proteins, in and of themselves. That having been said, other features of plants (the low fat content, particularly) do make plant matter easier to digest as a whole. And cooking does denature some protein, which can make the protein less usable (or completely unusable) to our body.

[Denise Nicole]

Protein is necessary for your body. But like several others have mentioned the average person in the US consumes way too much protein. That being said if you only eat iceburg lettuce salads you will have a problem! Not knowing what you consume in a day, I can't be sure. But if you eat a varied diet you will get enough protein no problem.

This "but what about the protein" issue is very a very common question for vegans. So be sure to educate yourself well and start with the short responses (should you choose to respond). If they are truely interested you can dazzle them with knowledge! ;)

Here's a comic for you:
http://www.happycow.net/humor_images/protein.gif

[Crystal Rose]

LOL, seasiren, that comic SAYS IT ALL.
Thanks -- I needed that. :D

[LeanAndHungry]

I just did an interesting calculation.
I weigh about 170.

According to one of the articles posted by Helen of Tennessee said protein makes up 15% of the body.

In my case that would be about 25lbs of protein, or 11,600 grams of protein. If I consumed 30 grams a day for a year, that would be 10,950 grams. So 30 grams a day is almost enough to completely replace every protein in the body in a year. If our body reuses 70% of it's protein waste, then it would only take 30% of 30 grams a day to recycle the body in a year or 10grams. THe only question is how often does our body need to replace proteins. Without that info the above calculation may be pointless.

Also, for the purpose of building muscle, if you get an extra 5 grams a day, which is almost nothing, that would be enough for 4 lbs of pure protein in your body over the course of a year, which assuming muscle is 70% water and all the rest is protein, which might be conservative, comes out to 13lbs of muscle in a year. How many bodybuilders do you know of who put on 13lbs in a year of consuming 150g of protein a day? Theoretically you would then be able to put on 268lbs of muscle, assuming only 100grams go towards building new muscle. That's pretty insane, when you consider the standard principle in bodybuilding is 1 gram or more per lb of bodyweight.with many bodybuilders weighing over 200lbs.

[cheflissy]

thnak you all for the info. i really appreciate it. i've decided that this guy must be concerned for me but very shut off to what i'm doing. example: i went into work late yesterday cuz i cut my finger and hand to get three stitches (which they pumped me full of number and tetnas!! :mad: ). so i get to work and he's still giving me a bad time (it's only 6:30am too!!) about how this wouldn't have happened if i had had more animal protien. i had had a long night before and a very long and early start to the day and didn't want to argue with him, which was what would happen, so I told him to leave it alone. then at lunch again he kept giving me unapproving looks because of my salad with veggies again. he just doesn't want to drop the issue. i will have to remember all of this info for the next time someone pressures me about protien. so much great knowledge here! thanks guys! you're the best!!!! :D

melissa

[dreamrawalwz]

thnak you all for the info. i really appreciate it. i've decided that this guy must be concerned for me but very shut off to what i'm doing. example: i went into work late yesterday cuz i cut my finger and hand to get three stitches (which they pumped me full of number and tetnas!! :mad: ). so i get to work and he's still giving me a bad time (it's only 6:30am too!!) about how this wouldn't have happened if i had had more animal protien. i had had a long night before and a very long and early start to the day and didn't want to argue with him, which was what would happen, so I told him to leave it alone. then at lunch again he kept giving me unapproving looks because of my salad with veggies again. he just doesn't want to drop the issue. i will have to remember all of this info for the next time someone pressures me about protien. so much great knowledge here! thanks guys! you're the best!!!! :D

melissa

I don't see how cuttign your finger and raw have ANYTHING to do with each other...you could have done the same thing if you ate "animal protein."

[rawfigure]

If you work with this guy the next time he brings the subject up I would just change it to something work related.

Any info you give him he will find a debate for it.

He is what I call a Toxic person and you need to simply unplug from him.

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Melissa,

My grandson got 5 stitches. I requested that they not give him the tetnus shot and they didn't give it to him. It's okay to refuse shots.

I'm so sorry this guy is still harrassing you.

[cheflissy]

Hi Melissa,

My grandson got 5 stitches. I requested that they not give him the tetnus shot and they didn't give it to him. It's okay to refuse shots.

I'm so sorry this guy is still harrassing you.

if i was thinking (it was 4;30AM) i would have not had it. oh well...i am suprised tho that i don't feel worse from it. just really tired but have had a very long week with little sleep.

rawfigure,
i do plan to change the subject next time or at least tell him more directly to leave me alone...i know i'm young and very thin in a good way tho, but that's no reason to keep bugging me about this!

dream,
i couldn't agree more! i cut myself doing the same thing 10 years ago while SAD. meat has nothing to do with it.

man, typing one handed really stinks! :(

melissa

[Sharon in Colorado]

thnak you all for the info. i really appreciate it. i've decided that this guy must be concerned for me but very shut off to what i'm doing. example: i went into work late yesterday cuz i cut my finger and hand to get three stitches (which they pumped me full of number and tetnas!! :mad: ). so i get to work and he's still giving me a bad time (it's only 6:30am too!!) about how this wouldn't have happened if i had had more animal protien. i had had a long night before and a very long and early start to the day and didn't want to argue with him, which was what would happen, so I told him to leave it alone. then at lunch again he kept giving me unapproving looks because of my salad with veggies again. he just doesn't want to drop the issue. i will have to remember all of this info for the next time someone pressures me about protien. so much great knowledge here! thanks guys! you're the best!!!! :D

melissa

Wow - that really does sound like harassment.

In your case you might want to let him know that you are fine having a discussion about his inferior diet away from the work environment but at work you absolutely don't appreciate him constantly haranguing and probing at you about your diet, it is none of his business and he needs to stop immediately.

If he doesn't have anything nice to say he needs to shut his trap.

You could even say "nobody wants to listen to you" I know that sounds kind of mean, but it would probably do the trick! :)