Travel and RAW - Where is the line?

[SNMB]

All right. So I know that ideally, you'd probably all like to stay raw when you travel. However, when does the sacrifice become too great? I give you this excerpt from an interview with Anthony Bourdain:

Bookslut: Your essay in “Nasty Bits” about raw food was almost polite. You’ve been much more mean to vegetarians in the past, but this essay talked about how every person finds their own path. You reserve your ire for Woody Harrelson. (In the essay, Harrelson refuses a meal in Thailand in order to stick to his strict raw food diet.)

Anthony: Clearly IÂ’m angry at Woody Harrelson. IÂ’m okay with people who are horrified by cruelty to animals. I understand that completely. Who isnÂ’t? Well, a lot of people arenÂ’t, but I am. I wouldnÂ’t hunt for sport, as IÂ’ve said. IÂ’m grateful for annoying gadfly organizations that embarrass or use any legal pressures to encourage people to not hunt. Same with fur. Same with cosmetic testing on animals. I donÂ’t see any reason for that. As a comedian said, however, if you tell me hooking a chimp up to a car battery is going to find a cure for AIDS, IÂ’m all for that.

What really got me, as angry as I was, I think Charlie TrotterÂ’s comments (in the foreword to his cookbook Raw) were pretty measured and I could kind of understand and even respect what heÂ’s doing as an intellectual exercise or a creative exercise, but I was really furious at the thought of anyone lucky enough to travel to Thailand -- lucky enough, because I am aware at how lucky I am -- and then turn your nose up at it. So rude and anti-human and contemptuous of this planet and other nations and other cultures, and thatÂ’s where I get pissed off.

Now, I think he's a bit harsh in his assessment but brings up a valid point. If you were in Thailand being offered food by a poor farmer who has sacrificed to give the food to you and prepared it with a lot of love, would you take it?

I have been in this exact situation. I lived in the north of Thailand in a little tiny village for a month and I did accept the food. Now, I'm vegan for mostly health reasons. I acknowledge all of the animal cruelty issues as well, but this is not my main reason for being vegan, so eating a bit of chicken doesn't bother me that much.

Where do you stand/think you'd stand on this issue? I'm still trying to figure it out for myself. For me, I think that if I'm buying the food for myself, it'll definitely be vegan and most likely be raw. However, if I'm invited into someone's home, I'd be more likely to accept what I was offered. But then I have to ask myself how far this goes. If I visit some relatives on the other side of the country and they offer me a full egg/bacon/pancake breakfast, do I accept? I've entertained the idea that no, I probably wouldn't, because I speak their language and know their culture and so I have other ways to bond with them. On the other hand, in Thailand, for example, I didn't really know any of those things and their offering to me was sacred and so I accepted it.

I'm probably talking myself in circles here but thoughts?

[moonstone523]

I live in Thailand. In a rural village. And let me tell you there are plenty of vegans in Thailand. I speak Thai so it makes eating a bit easier. But when I first arrived and didn't speak much Thai, the first thing I told them is I am a vegetarian. They quickly went and made me something else.

Thai food can be made in all of 5 minutes. Really, it's that fast.

It is so hard sometimes to say No though. I have eaten around meat numerous times. Well, not since going raw. But I have had to eat some stir fried veggies and rice on occasion. And the people at the vegan restaurant are probably wondering where the hell I've gone off to.

All in all, saving face means everything to this culture. Saying no, must be done in a polite way. :cool:

[Zena]

Was he actually offered food by a poor farmer or what? I'm not familiar with the original story. But I agree with him completely and would never accept food I didn't want to eat. I would feel bad about it, but eating something cooked(Meat ESPECIALLY, I cannot comprehend eating meat for any reason, I would literally rather starve) causes more suffering, to me. If somebody wants to be nice to you they should take what you eat into consideration, it's common courtesy. I would think it holds true around the world. Probably not, but wishful thinking... this is actually one of my biggest concerns, I plan to live in Japan and constantly worry about how refusing food all the time and being so picky will affect my social life, but i'd rather have my health than make sacrifices for perople who don't understand why I eat the way I do. The way I see it, eating it just to make them happy is pointless, they made it for you so you would be happy, and you obviously won't be happy if you feel socially pressured to eat it. I'm going to visit my grandma next month and I know she's going to be badgering me about eating 'just a little' of anything, and it's going to be stressful, and she's not going to understand and will be hurt, but i'm not going to. If it's your FAMILY doing this, then it's bordering on a control issue I think, or just wanting things to be like they used to, the family eating together, etc. I don't know, there's a lot of possible situations and i'm sure others have different opinions, but personally, for me, I think you would be in the right to refuse food. Sorry for rambling SO MUCH! :o

[DavidZaneMason]

Opinion:

My thought is that cooking does nothing to improve the protein / nutrient quality of the food I eat. All cooked / prepared food starts out as raw food.....so I just need to seek out the source. Where am I going to travel where fresh, raw plant food is not available?

-For my part, I CAN avoid cooked food - so I do. Just my thing.

-Do I think I'm doing any one else a favor by accepting cooked food alternatives? Do I think I'm providing a good example? No: so I don't.

-Just my experiences.

-David Mason

[Denise Nicole]

I am currently in the transitioning stages, so if offered right now a cooked VEGAN meal, and raw was not an option I would accept. However, I would under no circumstances accept a non-vegan meal. I am also vegan for health and can not consume cholestrol without it effecting my health.

Now after I completely transition, I imagine I would not consume the cooked vegan meal either as being used to raw food, cooked would have immediate effects....like toxins entering the body.

So in conclusion, I agree he should have refused the food in a polite manner.

[rawpriestess]

I am a raw vegan and that is how I chose to live my life.

If someone offers me cooked food or meat, I'm not going to eat it.

However, I will be very thankful and courteous to the person giving it to me, and let them know how much I love and appreciate their kindness.

[Sharon in Colorado]

A good host is there to please the guest. In that respect, if the guest is unable to, for health or religious or even personal reasons eat what has been offered the guest should not be made to feel bad.

I think there is too much pride involved when a host is turned down.

"Why won't s/he eat my cake, steak, etc.?"

There could be so many reasons for not eating that food like allergies for instance - if someone were to unconditionally accept something that may kill them are they really being impolite?

And if you were on an all raw diet for 3 years and ate some cooked food to appease the host, you'd probably have some really nasty allergy-like reaction.
You'd feel horrible and so would your host.

[Sheryl]

People overseas are thrilled to share their tropical fruits and vegetables too... Thailand is masterful for that. We have a good friend biking there that has eaten durian every day buy two since early May (most of it gifted to him by people he meets). It is a raw foodists paradise!!!

I tried travelling and sampling cooked meals a couple of years ago when Piers and I were in Hong Kong. I felt like I would be missing something if I didn't. After one or two meals (that we could have bought in Canada or Australia - rice and veggies) we decided that the raw food was better, and looked a little harder to find what we needed. Then we found mangosteens, fresh coconuts, goji berries and more. We were very very happy! And in searching for these we found all kinds of behind the scenes little markets which were so cool.

In Indonesia a few weeks ago we could buy giant whole coconuts for about $0.50 US. Many meals we just bought a coconut from a road side stall, and sat on the grass with our bikes sipping away. Elderly ladies would walk by and cackle at us, tourists eating to them what was considered the poor mans food on the side of the road, instead of being in a fancy restaurant. We were so happy though!

Piers also pointed out how funny it is that so many cultures that have yet to live the excesses of the USA, Canada, Australia etc envy our selection of processed foods, however also see that we have so many unhealthy overweight people. One day they will see that they are linked.

Travelling raw is actually quite simple.. if you are willing to look. And brings you into the culture just as much as eating cooked!! That's my opinion anyway!

Cheers,
Sheryl

[Brianna]

Victorian Boutenko gives a good illustration in her book Twelve Steps to Raw Food. If you are in a socail situation where someone is offering you a bottle of vodka and may be insulted if you don't drink it, you're certainly going to find a courteous way to decline. You can do the same thing wtih cooked food. It's your body. Don't let anyone pressure you to put anthing in it that you don't want to put in it.

[paleogirl]

As someone with Celiac and additional food allergies, becoming raw has actually greatly *widened* my food choices. It was the first reason I thought about trying raw. "What, you mean I can have dessert again?!" :confused: :D Of course, the healing benefits were an even bigger incentive once I started reading about them.

Anyway my point in this case is that anyone with food allergies and intolerences has to deal with 'offending' people by refusing food - food in my case which would make me horribly ill and unable to function for 2+ weeks. After last night experiencing personal discomfort/illness due to eating cooked food in order to fit in socially, I now approach raw with the same mindset as I have approached my other dietary restrictions - my health is more important than whether or not I offend my host (and as someone already pointed out, anyone who truly cares about you should also value your health and comfort over all else).

[SNMB]

People overseas are thrilled to share their tropical fruits and vegetables too... Thailand is masterful for that. We have a good friend biking there that has eaten durian every day buy two since early May (most of it gifted to him by people he meets). It is a raw foodists paradise!!!

I tried travelling and sampling cooked meals a couple of years ago when Piers and I were in Hong Kong. I felt like I would be missing something if I didn't. After one or two meals (that we could have bought in Canada or Australia - rice and veggies) we decided that the raw food was better, and looked a little harder to find what we needed. Then we found mangosteens, fresh coconuts, goji berries and more. We were very very happy! And in searching for these we found all kinds of behind the scenes little markets which were so cool.

In Indonesia a few weeks ago we could buy giant whole coconuts for about $0.50 US. Many meals we just bought a coconut from a road side stall, and sat on the grass with our bikes sipping away. Elderly ladies would walk by and cackle at us, tourists eating to them what was considered the poor mans food on the side of the road, instead of being in a fancy restaurant. We were so happy though!

Piers also pointed out how funny it is that so many cultures that have yet to live the excesses of the USA, Canada, Australia etc envy our selection of processed foods, however also see that we have so many unhealthy overweight people. One day they will see that they are linked.

Travelling raw is actually quite simple.. if you are willing to look. And brings you into the culture just as much as eating cooked!! That's my opinion anyway!

Cheers,
Sheryl

That's a bit different, though, as you're biking and buying your own food. I agree that in this situation I'd eat nothing but mangosteens! OK, and coconuts. And lum yai. And pineapple. And every other delicious fruit.

[moonstone523]

That's a bit different, though, as you're biking and buying your own food. I agree that in this situation I'd eat nothing but mangosteens! OK, and coconuts. And lum yai. And pineapple. And every other delicious fruit.

Where did you live in Thailand? I've been in the Northeast - Isan - since January 05. Just today I went out to the my friends garden we got coconuts. She has everything there. Lum yai are not ripe yet. But they are getting there. Ripe mango season just ended. It's only green mangos till next april. :cool: