That's not ME, that's my disease.

[Purl]

That's my new motto. I was watching Oprah yesterday and there was a mom who was an alcoholic. I don't know her exact words but it was something to the effect that SHE isn't a bad person-that she has a disease. She said she learned to separate the 2. SHE is still there, but the disease lives inside her. And this really hit home with me and my food issues. *I* am not a bad person, but sometimes I listen to the DISEASE tell me what to eat, rather than listen to ME. I mean, my disease wants to KILL me-so of course I'm not gonna get good advice from It. So I had been binging (steak and fritos-ewwww!) after 3 days of raw, right before this thought came to me. I put down the meat and walked away. My disease called me back a few times but I was able to say "No-that is my disease talking and I'm not gonna feed It." Later-I wanted to eat a few more fritos, so I said it again in my head. I have had to say it several times this morning, but I have begun to differentitate (sp?) between the 2. Cravings are from my disease and It tries to rationalize bad choices. It wants to kill me-either thru STARVATION or COMPULSIVE overeating. It's doesnt' care-as long as It makes me suffer and steals my joy. But I won't let it win.

*I* am stronger than It.

[dreamrawalwz]

Thank you for that. I watched Oprah, but I guess I never thought of it in terms that way until you related it to food. Anorexia and bulimia are NOT who I am. They do not make my identity (anymore).

[Lunar*Fey]

That is wonderful. Thanks for sharing it too as learning that has helped me and I'm sure it will help others :)
Also, like in that video (maybe its called The Secret?) that someone posted on this board...What we HAVE done or said or felt like does not define who we are now and who we are going to be. But by putting words and time and energy into thinking or talking about or analyzing who we once were and what we once did we are causing ourselves to remain that way.

[paleogirl]

I'm sorry, but addiction is a choice, not a disease... It's offensive to those of us with REAL diseases to call these personal behavioural choices 'dieseases'. Everyone who is of sound mind is responsible for their own behaviour.

That said, it can be amazingly helpful to separate the person from the problem - in fact, admitting the behaviour is a choice (made by the addicted part of you) is a first major step in recovery. Check this out:

http://www.rational.org/

[dreamrawalwz]

I'm sorry, but addiction is a choice, not a disease... It's offensive to those of us with REAL diseases to call these personal behavioural choices 'dieseases'. Everyone who is of sound mind is responsible for their own behaviour.

That said, it can be amazingly helpful to separate the person from the problem - in fact, admitting the behaviour is a choice (made by the addicted part of you) is a first major step in recovery. Check this out:

http://www.rational.org/

From what I understand, chemical changes take place in the disorders of depression, alcoholism, anorexia, ect. and the person physcially can NOT change their actions without major assistance and guidance. They are diseases of the brain. There are MANY diseases out there. Some can be cured more quickly then others. I didn't not choose be develope anorexia and bulimia. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It's not a choice when your brain (there are basically two sides) tells you all the bad things and if you don't listen you're a horrible person. Admitting the problem could be a choice yes, but you have to get to that point of the illness that you're no longer in denial. For me it became natural and I dind't feel I had a problem at all.

[lavendarJ]

I just want to say that I wish anyone who is suffering or struggling the best and hope for your complete healing. I think the posted comments to Purl's post are quite interesting. They say a lot about how we are raised and what we may or may not have experienced in our lives. I believe in the power of our words. I believe that many many times, we set in motion events and situations just by what we speak into the universe. If saying "I am stronger than it" brings you a level of peace then so be it. I believe in you and I believe that we all have everything we need within ourselves in order to be happy, whole and complete. Let's face it, life happens and sometimes experiences or choices open us up to distractions, struggles, or situations that were not meant for us. Life happens. A lot of times, we may fall back on old habits or ways of living because we are accustomed to the struggle(and because as strange as it may seem, the struggle can become comfortable) and it can be kind of scary thinking about what new adventures change will bring. Purl you can do it; the struggle doesn't have to last forever. Purl you will do it and I simply write to say Go Purl Go :)

Paleogirl
I wasn't offended by anyones comments on this post. We all just expressing our thoughts, opinions and beliefs right? I believe that many things that happen to us in life began as choices we made but I also believe that the mind is a puzzling instrument that can be fashioned into accepting many different realities (often brought on by anything from chronic states of depression to life experiences or tragedies). I can't "fix" anyone or heal anyone. I can only let express an opinion. It is what it is. I simply write to wish Purl well during her journey. I believe that by the very utterance of our words we have the power to sadden, belittle, judge, or anger another...but we also have the power to uplift, encourage, empower, and offer hope. The words we speak are also a choice just as you recognized addiction as a choice. I was not offended by anything Purl said, she simply expressed an opinion on a "personal growth" thread. I do find it very interesting the way you worded your opinion (e.g. "REAL" diseases and use of the words "sound mind"). Who is to say what a real disease is or isn't? (is a "disease" that just happened to a person warranted more understanding versus a "disease" that results from "choice"? ) I think that dreamrawalwz makes an important point about potential changes that can occur within the body. I just don't think everything can be as rational as we might prefer it to be.

[Spectatrix]

While I won't dismiss eating disorders, alcoholism, etc. as not being diseases, I think there is a substantial difference between those diseases that stem from lifestyle choices and those that don't. The former include not only addictions that also things like lung cancer in smokers, cardiovascular disease in people who eat tons of fatty food, cirrhosis in drinkers, etc.

While those diseases do merit sympathy and understanding, I admit that I may not feel as sympathetic towards them as people with diseases that were thrust upon them through no choice of their own. A child born with AIDS, those born with genetic conditions, etc...

Personal responsibility is a big part of my personal philosophy and, as such, it bugs me a bit to see people laying the blame on their addiction rather than taking responsibility for their own actions. But... I guess if that mindset helps a person to overcome their addiction rather than wallowing in it, then it's beneficial. My worst addiction was to caffeine and I overcome that very easily, so I guess I have a hard time imagining what it would be like to be alcoholic, anorexic, etc.

[eachpeachpearplum]

That's my new motto. I was watching Oprah yesterday and there was a mom who was an alcoholic. I don't know her exact words but it was something to the effect that SHE isn't a bad person-that she has a disease. She said she learned to separate the 2. SHE is still there, but the disease lives inside her. And this really hit home with me and my food issues. *I* am not a bad person, but sometimes I listen to the DISEASE tell me what to eat, rather than listen to ME. I mean, my disease wants to KILL me-so of course I'm not gonna get good advice from It. So I had been binging (steak and fritos-ewwww!) after 3 days of raw, right before this thought came to me. I put down the meat and walked away. My disease called me back a few times but I was able to say "No-that is my disease talking and I'm not gonna feed It." Later-I wanted to eat a few more fritos, so I said it again in my head. I have had to say it several times this morning, but I have begun to differentitate (sp?) between the 2. Cravings are from my disease and It tries to rationalize bad choices. It wants to kill me-either thru STARVATION or COMPULSIVE overeating. It's doesnt' care-as long as It makes me suffer and steals my joy. But I won't let it win.

*I* am stronger than It.

Well said; I have no issue with your choice of words - actually I hadnt really noticed. What I did notice was the general message. Great message and one I feel might really be of help to me. :o

Thank you for sharing!

EPPP

[startootsie]

Personally I think that it is the choices we make. It's our desiscion to do what we do, and even if someone tells us it's not worth it or it's unhealthy, sometimes we have to do it to learn. Sometimes we need to just to learn it and really know it, then that way we had the expierence. But I don't think that anyone with anorexia or any other eating disorder can't get better no matter what, I think that is in you and if you are evry strong and are really trying to do the right thing then it really can't take you to far, you might get caught up but if you are really not indenial then you can move on. I think that no matter how much one part of your head believes it, and the other doesn't, to really overcome it you have to step out of your comfort zone and let go of fear. Cause it's true things could get worse but they can also get better, if your in a bad situation unhappy and mad at yourself why not try something new, so what if it's worse, you can step away from that if it get's worse, but what if it get's better? If you didn't try it then you would be missing out. That's just my opinion.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Personally as a Christian I see it as a sin. Everyone sins, but not everyone is able to turn away from sin. I am not talking about mental illness, etc. but things like addiction that causes people to stumble in their lives that takes the focus off God.

I think too many people try to put a name tag on their problems but won't take accountability for them. I know because I deal with my own sins on a daily basis. It is not always easy to turn away from sin but it's easy to call it a disease.

[Oceana]

I'm sorry, but addiction is a choice, not a disease...

I disagree!
My addiction IS NOT a choice!
It is a compulsion I have and often a "mindless" one at that!

TRUST ME; If I could just make a choice NOT to feed my addiction I would have done that LONG ago.

[Oceana]

Personally as a Christian I see it as a sin. Everyone sins, but not everyone is able to turn away from sin. I am not talking about mental illness, etc. but things like addiction that causes people to stumble in their lives that takes the focus off God.

I think too many people try to put a name tag on their problems but won't take accountability for them. I know because I deal with my own sins on a daily basis. It is not always easy to turn away from sin but it's easy to call it a disease.

My addiction has nothing to do with sin.
I wont post what it is because it is private.
I have NEVER taken my focus off of God for one minute; but I am still plagued with this addiction.
I feel like you are saying "ungodly get addiction?"

[Svadhyaya]

What about when mental illness leads to problems such as addiction and compulsions? I am at a point in my life where I'm trying to disentangle myself and determine where my bad/rebellious choices end and the compulsions stemming from true illness begins. I am a Christian, like Sharon, and I don't want to shirk responsibility when I am at fault, but I also know that I am often a victim of a mind that doesn't always chemically engage the way it is supposed to. It's a very weird position to be in.

People often do not have as much empathy for those who suffer with "diseases of choice" but the feelings of guilt and blame that these sufferers place on themselves can result in acute, horrible suffering nonetheless. Knowing people pass judgment on your suffering makes the awfulness even worse. I believe that it is very hard and also unfair to judge other's conditions until you have walked in their shoes.


Purl, I think you are brave to continue fighting this insiduous enemy (and I do believe it is a disease, not a mere choice) and I hope that this new paradigm will help you overcome your issues.

[Narz]

Hmm, I also don't go for the "disease" label as I personally do not find it empowering.

That said I have many different sides to me. One side wants to make choices for short term gratification, another side wants to do what will serve me the most in the long term.

I can act from my better self without blaming diseases, demons, etc. for my problems. Sometimes anyway.

From my experience people who label their problems as diseases struggle with them for a lot longer than those who view them as symptoms of something larger and work from the frame of mind of being empowered.

I'm not here to argue with anyone though. Good luck to all! :)

[Narz]

Why do people feel they have to choose between "disease" and "guilt"? How about just admit you are making a choice and try to be nonjudgemental about it?

[sport]

I think that people who are addicted to drugs or younger people who became addicted to ciggerettes have to take full responsibility for it because they knew that that was the road that they were going down and they made that choice.
Alcohol is a normal part of most peoples lives and when they first take a drink it is not in the knowledge that they will become addicted. I come from a large family and 2 are addicted to alcohol. My sister and I started to take alcohol at the same time as teenagers and we hung around together but she was an alcoholic from her first drink and I hated the stuff and just took it to get the high feeling. I was the lucky one. I could not get addicted to anything. She now says that she was the lucky one because she has been involved with the AA for about 20 years and says that this involvment has added so much to her life that she counts it as a blessing.
My brother is still struggling. He has been dry now for about a year but I know how hard it was for him and it continues to be a struggle every day. He is a great guy and would give anything to have this weight lifted off him but has taken lots of treatments and counceling and finds it so hard.

It is many years ago since I heard an article on TV saying that a team had isolated the gene that would indicate if you were to be an alcoholic. Maybe everybody should have a test done before they reach drinking age and if they have the gene and still choose to drink then I will say that it is their own fault. Otherwise I will hold to the idea that it is a disease and just unlucky that you were the one to fall victim and not I. It could easily have been me but for my DNA and I can not take the credit for that.

[Narz]

DNA may give you predispostions but it doesn't control your destiny. You have a lot more genes than just the so-called "alcoholic" one. ;)

[sport]

DNA may give you predispostions but it doesn't control your destiny. You have a lot more genes than just the so-called "alcoholic" one. ;)
I think that most of us begin to drink in their teens and do not know how to handle the longing for alcohol.
I am stating my personal expierence. My sister is a very strong lady and is everybody's rock. I did not know what she was experiencing as a teenager when we were having fun but I have since learned and regret that I did not know enough at the time to help. She is the furthest thing from weak that you can encounter but she still fell victim.

[Sharon in Colorado]

There is no judgement in my post. I will be the first to admit I deal with addictions, which I feel are sins.

Gluttony is huge, and it is well accepted throughout the Christian community. Day after day I see brothers and sisters practicing this sin, and then praying for healing after that sin leads to disease.

Just because you sin doesn't mean you are God-less, it just means you may not be seeking God to the best of your God-given ability. Every human has a nature to sin and will die with one, but the key is to ask for forgiveness and then ask for strength to turn away from that sin.

The sin of addiction often is conquered when you take your eyes off yourself and on to your higher power - this is why the 12 step programs work so well to those who apply it. You cannot always do it by yourself - the power of God is amazing.

Focus wholly on God, seek God, give time to God, and the sin will no longer rule your life. It may happen immediately or over time - it is different for everyone.

[sport]

There is no judgement in my post. I will be the first to admit I deal with addictions, which I feel are sins.

Gluttony is huge, and it is well accepted throughout the Christian community. Day after day I see brothers and sisters practicing this sin, and then praying for healing after that sin leads to disease.

Just because you sin doesn't mean you are God-less, it just means you may not be seeking God to the best of your God-given ability. Every human has a nature to sin and will die with one, but the key is to ask for forgiveness and then ask for strength to turn away from that sin.

The sin of addiction often is conquered when you take your eyes off yourself and on to your higher power - this is why the 12 step programs work so well to those who apply it. You cannot always do it by yourself - the power of God is amazing.

Focus wholly on God, seek God, give time to God, and the sin will no longer rule your life. It may happen immediately or over time - it is different for everyone.
Sharon
I was not suggesting that you were being judgmental but I can clearly see both sides of this as I have a low tollerance for overeaters (and I have some of those in my family as well) while having a high tollerance for alcoholics. This is probably two faced of me and I hope that someday I will learn something to make me see it differently.
You must understand that there are some of us (me for one) who do not believe in god and therefore do not believe in sin. I see weakness and not sin. I do not understand the concept of sin and never will.

[Sharon in Colorado]

My addiction has nothing to do with sin.
I wont post what it is because it is private.
I have NEVER taken my focus off of God for one minute; but I am still plagued with this addiction.
I feel like you are saying "ungodly get addiction?"

This is between you and the Lord then. I cannot and will not judge your addiction but if it is something that has developed over time then you can bet that it doesn't have to stay with you forever, this is hope.

When I am sinning, that is the time I'm not focused on Him. So, I don't know about you, but with me there has been "one minute" in my life, at least, that I've taken my focus off God.

All I can think of here is focusing on Him and healthy things for your temple away from your addiction can only take time away from it and eventually you will be free. This may take a lot of work on your part and may require seeking Christian counsel.

[sport]

This is between you and the Lord then. I cannot and will not judge your addiction but if it is something that has developed over time then you can bet that it doesn't have to stay with you forever, this is hope.

When I am sinning, that is the time I'm not focused on Him. So, I don't know about you, but with me there has been "one minute" in my life, at least, that I've taken my focus off God.

All I can think of here is focusing on Him and healthy things for your temple away from your addiction can only take time away from it and eventually you will be free. This may take a lot of work on your part and may require seeking Christian counsel.
Sharon
I know that you are not going to like this but I do feel as if you have an addiction to god. I think that you are relying too much on your belief as a fall back for every situation and it seems to dominate every aspect of your day and your thoughts. I think that that would be the description of an addiction.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I can clearly see both sides of this as I have a low tollerance for overeaters (and I have some of those in my family as well) while having a high tollerance for alcoholics.

I used to think the same way until I realized that both substances will cause physiological addiction as both of these substances are cooked, causing molecular changes which feeds the addiction.

In both cases though, the addiction is stopped when the person completely stops using, very seldom can the addiction be stopped by slowly reducing the substance.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Sharon
I know that you are not going to like this but I do feel as if you have an addiction to god.

It is a great addiction :)

[DoinItRaw]

That's my new motto. I was watching Oprah yesterday and there was a mom who was an alcoholic. I don't know her exact words but it was something to the effect that SHE isn't a bad person-that she has a disease. She said she learned to separate the 2. SHE is still there, but the disease lives inside her. And this really hit home with me and my food issues. *I* am not a bad person, but sometimes I listen to the DISEASE tell me what to eat, rather than listen to ME. I mean, my disease wants to KILL me-so of course I'm not gonna get good advice from It. So I had been binging (steak and fritos-ewwww!) after 3 days of raw, right before this thought came to me. I put down the meat and walked away. My disease called me back a few times but I was able to say "No-that is my disease talking and I'm not gonna feed It." Later-I wanted to eat a few more fritos, so I said it again in my head. I have had to say it several times this morning, but I have begun to differentitate (sp?) between the 2. Cravings are from my disease and It tries to rationalize bad choices. It wants to kill me-either thru STARVATION or COMPULSIVE overeating. It's doesnt' care-as long as It makes me suffer and steals my joy. But I won't let it win.

*I* am stronger than It.
Wow thats awesome Purl...keep it up! Also checking in to mindfullness....a good skill to learn for any obsessive behavior. Instead of caving in to your bad self and food...reward yourself for ignoring it by...pampering yourself....and allowing yourself to experience pleasant things only you like and can give yourself.....

[sport]

It is a great addiction :)
I am glad that you answered that way. It is a great answer. I wanted to say my piece because that is how I feel but I did not want to upset you.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Actually in truth I am not nearly where I feel I need to be in my spiritual life - I think I over-do the raw food thing in my life which many times unnecessarily takes center stage, but this is probably the first time I've really come out and discussed this from a spiritual standpoint. I usually don't bring up my beliefs much on this board.

So, it may seem that I'm a lot more focused than I personally feel I am, or need to be. I'm not perfect but I try.

[Ireland]

Addiction to God? Yes, like Sharon, I think it's a wonderful addiction! I too only wish my addiction were stronger.

As for addictions being choice, I believe in the beginning that they absotluely are. Then, over a period of time (and I think this stands for pretty much all physical addiction) there is a chemical change in the brain. It's rather sad actually that people look down on depressred people for instance. (not an addiction, but hear me out) They are told to "snap out of it". This is no more possible than to tell a person in a wheel chair with no legs, to "snap out of it" and "just walk for pete's sake".

That's why it's important to look at recovery from many viewpoints. The spiritual, mental, physical, emotional, etc...

What happens in one part of our life affects the other parts. If you hurt your leg, you limp. Then your other leg has to compensate and becomes sore. And so on, and so on...

Well, I hope I made some sense here. Interesting thread.

[Svadhyaya]

Great post, WoW.....

In the beginning my food addiction was a choice - a hedonistic love of food that I just indulged in past the point of what was healthy and necessary. (At that point I was agnostic.) Then, it took root and became a part of my thinking so that now, even though I rarely actually eat too much, I think of food constantly and crave and desire it in a way that's almost like that bent over little fellow (my preeeeeecious....) in the Lord of the Rings. It is definitely no longer a choice, even though it did start out that way.

Since becoming a Christian, I feel that God has taken from me my horrible compulsion to overeat, but He hasn't yet helped me fix my mind, which is causing a very big problem for me. I'm grateful that I'm not overeating anymore and overgaining anymore, but I still have to fight it all the time.

Food is my one and only addiction I've ever had (unless God counts, and possibly music.)

[dreamrawalwz]

Addiction to God? Yes, like Sharon, I think it's a wonderful addiction! I too only wish my addiction were stronger.

As for addictions being choice, I believe in the beginning that they absotluely are. Then, over a period of time (and I think this stands for pretty much all physical addiction) there is a chemical change in the brain. It's rather sad actually that people look down on depressred people for instance. (not an addiction, but hear me out) They are told to "snap out of it". This is no more possible than to tell a person in a wheel chair with no legs, to "snap out of it" and "just walk for pete's sake".

That's why it's important to look at recovery from many viewpoints. The spiritual, mental, physical, emotional, etc...

What happens in one part of our life affects the other parts. If you hurt your leg, you limp. Then your other leg has to compensate and becomes sore. And so on, and so on...

Well, I hope I made some sense here. Interesting thread.

I'm so glad you posted the part about the depression. My mom constanatly told me to "snap out of it," "get over it," or "let it go," and it used to get me SO upset. She also used to say that "if you get your mind off it then it'll go away." Uhh...that's NOT how it works, especially if you've been depressed chronically for more than 5 years. That's a chemical change, just like other "addictions" such as eating disorders. It's a choice to deal with your emotions with starving, purging, ect., but down teh line it begins to control you and you can not stop by yourself. The disorder is constanatly with you, even if you're in remission, something is always there to remind you of it.

[druid]

That's my new motto. I was watching Oprah yesterday and there was a mom who was an alcoholic. I don't know her exact words but it was something to the effect that SHE isn't a bad person-that she has a disease. She said she learned to separate the 2. SHE is still there, but the disease lives inside her. And this really hit home with me and my food issues. *I* am not a bad person, but sometimes I listen to the DISEASE tell me what to eat, rather than listen to ME. I mean, my disease wants to KILL me-so of course I'm not gonna get good advice from It. So I had been binging (steak and fritos-ewwww!) after 3 days of raw, right before this thought came to me. I put down the meat and walked away. My disease called me back a few times but I was able to say "No-that is my disease talking and I'm not gonna feed It." Later-I wanted to eat a few more fritos, so I said it again in my head. I have had to say it several times this morning, but I have begun to differentitate (sp?) between the 2. Cravings are from my disease and It tries to rationalize bad choices. It wants to kill me-either thru STARVATION or COMPULSIVE overeating. It's doesnt' care-as long as It makes me suffer and steals my joy. But I won't let it win.

*I* am stronger than It.


huh? alcohol isnt a disease. neither is eating cooked foods. this is a CHOICE the same as alcohol. A CHOICE. wake up.

[Narz]

True, it's a choice. There is no YOU & IT. It is all you. That's ok though. Once your own an action as yours you can begin to develop the power to choose differently. :)

[Doe]

Good grief my head is spinning from trying to read this thread. Soooo I decided to get some definitions:

disease - an impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning

sin – to miss the mark of perfection

addiction - an abnormally strong craving

Sounds to me like alcoholism, eating disorders, and other modern aliments would fit under all three terms. Cancer, AIDS, and tumors are caused by lifestyle usually through ignorance. I like this statement from Dr. Paul A. Goldberg (http://www.goldbergclinic.com/), a Natural Hygeinist:

“There are numerous reasons why people become ill: genetic factors, dietary imbalances, digestive problems, sleep habits, allergies, accidents, toxicity, emotional, mental, and spiritual stressors, these and other factors may be singly involved or there may be a combination of these factors together creating your health difficulties. A chief task for us will be to identify where your problems are coming from and what steps you should take to improve your health."

Throughout history in every part of the earth there have been people who crave and cultivate a close relationship with the creator of all things. Don't see a thing wrong with that.

Teri S

[Sharon in Colorado]

sin – to miss the mark of perfection




I have a feeling that depending on the source the definition will differ. In one of the original Webster's dictionaries, the definitions are backed up by many scriptural references.

The definition of sin could mean something entirely different to someone else who is following a moral code of conduct or coming from a bibilcal perspective.

Thus the above definition does not correlate to my idea of what sin is.

[Doe]

Sharon, imho it's wonderful that you are spiritual minded and I honestly didn't mean any harm. Actually I got the definition from a Bible Encyclopedia. I didn't think it would be appropriate to post scriptures here. Many people take offense at that type of thing. I will look at Websters definition online to get a view of your perspective, also I sent you an e-mail. I myself try to follow the example of Christ. My imperfection is before me at every turn.

Peace?,
Teri S

[Sharon in Colorado]

Hey Teri - I know what you mean, and I got your e-mail, thank you. I guess I just miss the mark of perfection daily, however I try to avoid sin as much as it follows me.

Peace! :)

[mershwista]

I like your attitude, Purl. Thanks for the inspiration.

[Vivafree2]

Good point!
I red the comments. Yes - we are responsible for self but it is not as easy to everyone to just logically state - "this habit kills me and i have to quit"
It is a tremendous effort to change, to unlearn, to stop the habit. First step is to know that we want to change something but as we are different people our ways of handling things are different and so the support system we have.
Constant attacking people addicted to something leads often to failure and self hate. Hey why we have RAW food support forum? Because we want to quit something....I am "attacked" everyday by meat eaters, chocolate cake eaters or coffee drinkers - if the habit would be still strong in me i would fail like in the past. When i have bad day i look for comfort - loving kindness is rare, food is everywhere. What about habits like alcohol and drugs - breaking them is even harder, it require to change life completely, say good bye to family members, friends,,,, I wouldn't judge people too harshly for being addicted - we all are to something. Most of us know that too much sugar leads to this and that.... It is not about avoiding responsibility for self it is about finding ways to self to handle the demon, to handle the world and being able to say NO.

[Flanny]

I'm sorry, but addiction is a choice, not a disease... It's offensive to those of us with REAL diseases . . .

Tell that to the infant born addicted to crack or alcohol.

Tell that to my dad who was force fed whiskey as a toddler and classified as an alcoholic by age 5, and a drug addict by the age of 7.

Tell that to people in intense pain that get addicted to pain killers because without them they'd go into shock and die (burn victims being a good example).

Addiction is not a choice. Recreational use of alcohol or drugs may be a choice, but the chemical dependency that forms for a variety of reasons, which may include recreational use, is NOT a choice.

Willful ignorance is a choice, and an offensive one. Get educated.

[Zaphirah]

Flanny-you made my day. Thank you. Seriously, I read this thread yesterday and was completely STUNNED at the callousness of some of the responses. I couldn't formulate my thoughts into clear sentences so I just left it alone.

Thank you for speaking up. I appreciate you.

(I'm the original poster-I changed my screen name awhile back. :cool: )

[Flanny]

I'll be surprised if the one I quoted even reads it but since the thread was brought back by a recent comment I felt it needed a proper perspective added. Those who choose not to believe the truth will find ways to rationalize anything away (sometimes very unrationally) but perhaps someone who may have been swayed by the callousness will see the truth.

[Flanny]

. . .

Addiction is not a choice. Recreational use of alcohol or drugs may be a choice, but the chemical dependency that forms for a variety of reasons, which may include recreational use, is NOT a choice.

. . .

I thought I'd provide a few resources for those who are TRULY interested in the nature of addictions and how the neuro-chemical process facilitates addiction. In short, the chemicals produced by our own bodies that are usually not produced otherwise cause a dependancy on these chemicals. The physical "high" produced by alcohol or drugs causes our bodies to react and produces chemical responses. Our bodies become conditioned to, and dependent on these chemical responses. Much like we need oxygen to breathe or bodies become dependent on the chemical responses and "require" them to function in what has become the normal fashion. This is why the withdrawal process can be fatal in extreme cases.

"Behavioral addictions" cause much the same chemical responses within our bodies, and similarly cause our bodies to become addicted to the euphoria brought on by the behavior in question or by the "choice" in question. Thus the "choice" becomes a trap and the addicted person no longer has the "choice" s/he once had.

Here's a good website that puts it simply in layman's terms. Pay particular attention to paragraph 3 and the beginning of paragraph 4 (food addiction is real):

http://ezinearticles.com/?Addictions---Behavioral-Factors&id=322506

The following is a summary of an article in a science magazine that sets forth evidence that both chemical and behavioral stimuli produce physical addictions:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/294/5544/980

The next website is an article that explains in better detail how behavioral addictions are chemically and physically manifested:

http://www.fairlandinstitute.org/addiction/ua_articles.php3?status=view_article&filename=UA_25&id=25

Here's an article by a medical doctor that explains the addictive process:

http://www.bma-wellness.com/addictions/addictions.html

While some behaviors and "choices" lead to addiction, Science has clearly shown that addiction is physical in nature and not simply a "choice" that can be easily "unchosen".

There are many more valid articles and documents discussing addiction in general and behavioral addiction specifically. These are just starting points for those of you who sincerely wish to learn and research this topic.

I welcome any civil debate from differing views, however, please don't quote some "Doctor Quack" who took an x-ray of his/her big toe or hind end while drunk and quoted it as proof that addictions aren't physical. If you present support for your opinion, please make sure it's reputable and not some hyped up mumbo jumbo. Thank you.

[WannaBraw]

What about when mental illness leads to problems such as addiction and compulsions? I am at a point in my life where I'm trying to disentangle myself and determine where my bad/rebellious choices end and the compulsions stemming from true illness begins. I am a Christian, like Sharon, and I don't want to shirk responsibility when I am at fault, but I also know that I am often a victim of a mind that doesn't always chemically engage the way it is supposed to. It's a very weird position to be in.

People often do not have as much empathy for those who suffer with "diseases of choice" but the feelings of guilt and blame that these sufferers place on themselves can result in acute, horrible suffering nonetheless. Knowing people pass judgment on your suffering makes the awfulness even worse. I believe that it is very hard and also unfair to judge other's conditions until you have walked in their shoes.


Purl, I think you are brave to continue fighting this insiduous enemy (and I do believe it is a disease, not a mere choice) and I hope that this new paradigm will help you overcome your issues.

I think that it takes a great amount of strength and personal responsibility to say 1. I have a problem 2. I can not handle it alone. 3. I call on a higher power (God) to help me to deal with this problem.

I come from a line of compulsive overeaters and food addicts (not to mention drug and alcohol addicts too). It is a dis-ease of the mind, to have an addiction. It is also an emotional dis-ease that keeps us tied to our addictive and compulsive behaviors. I spent many many days praying for God to take it away. But will power has never been enough. It is my thinking, and my emotions that are tied to food and it is totally beyond my control.
This is something that unfortunately has been passed down to me from the 2 previous generations unbeknownst to them. Now I am aware. I have seen my mother work through her disease. I am finally able to see mine and work toward recovery of my dis-ease.

It is not for anyone to judge. God is not condemning his children for having an addiction. We condemn ourselves by continuing to live with the disease.
And my feeling is that sin is Self Inflicted Nonsense- and every single person in the world inflects themselves with nonsense.

We need to learn to be more patient with ourselves. Love ourselves and give ourselves permission to stop the self punishment and take the steps to move forward and heal from whatever your dis-ease is.


Blessings,




Ellyn

[RawHeaven]

I believe any dis-ease that impacts the mind, emotions, body or spirit simply is a signal that we are out of alignment with ourselves and with the higher spirit if we believe in a higher spirit. One key to opening the door of awareness and to greater or complete healing is not to judge, label or try to quantify what is out of balance or to determine what qualifies as a disease, but simply to be aware of it and what is going on within ourselves. Once you're aware of this, as the original poster mentioned, you can begin to change and shift your focus by changing your thoughts and accepting where you are without judgement. Or worrying about what other people might think of you or what you're dealing with. It's most important and will bear the most impact to you directly, what you think about it and yourself in the end.

I love this quote which always makes me smile...

"It's none of my business what other people think about me".

[Dr. White]

I agree that addiction (as well as anorexia and bulimia) are diseases. I also agree that they are sin. They are idolatry. I counsel anorexic's and bullimics from a Biblical perspective daily and have seen great results when people start talking back and stop submitting to the disease. This technique works with just about any strong hold we have in life.

The biggest thing I have noticed in this whole post is that people keep saying "my eating disorder" or " I am a compulsive over eater". The first step is to stop making it yours . I hear people with cancer say "my cancer causes this or that.." It's " the cancer ... the eating disorder... whatever" Disconnect it from who you are and it will be much easier to get rid of.

There is a great book called Life Without ED that teaches this principle and I've seen it work over and over again.

[maui_butterfly]

I love this quote which always makes me smile...

"It's none of my business what other people think about me".

That's awesome!


Zaphirah: addiction, disease, sin, whatever. who cares? however it helps you (where you are IN your power, and not a victim) to look at it is the way YOU should look at it, and who cares what anyone else thinks about it. these words are emotionally charged, and differently charged for everybody. for example, for me personally it would NEVER be helpful to look at a problem i was having as a "sin" just because of how that word is charged for me. for others, it helps them.

keep rocking your path, girl.

[justinesmith]

That's awesome!


Zaphirah: addiction, disease, sin, whatever. who cares? however it helps you (where you are IN your power, and not a victim) to look at it is the way YOU should look at it, and who cares what anyone else thinks about it. these words are emotionally charged, and differently charged for everybody. for example, for me personally it would NEVER be helpful to look at a problem i was having as a "sin" just because of how that word is charged for me. for others, it helps them.

keep rocking your path, girl.

ABSOLUTLEY! :D Beautifully put.

[RawHeaven]

ABSOLUTLEY! :D Beautifully put.

I agree, very beautifully stated.

~~~~~

I was going to stay away from my thoughts on the concept of Sin as I can see why we don't want to get into discussions about our personal beliefs, but I just cannot help myself. :p I respect all spiritual thought and love to talk about it. I respect those who believe in sin, but I do not. I lean more towards Christ's gnostic teachings and nowhere in his words does it indicate that we are "sinners". I also lean more towards how I'm feeling within about something and that word has always been charged for me since I was a very young child. It always conjured up pictures of punishment which I don't believe is coming from God at all. I believe this ideology is man's ego creation and not of God's spiritual beauty, knowledge and power. The God I believe in is perfect, all loving and wanting the very best for me always. And because God is within me I'm already perfect as I am as I see it. I think it defeats the purpose of why you co-created your amazing body and being able to create on this earth - to see yourself as less than perfect, it's a contradiction in terms in my opinion.

So when we talk about cures, addictions, sins and diseases...what and whom are we really talking about? Hmmm. We are all one and the same. Who's to say what is best for someone else? I think this is where we get lost at times, not respecting that each and every one of us has the answer within ourselves. That answer may not gel with someone else's experience or how they came to their respective conclusion, but it's still our answer and works for us individually and collectively if we allow it. Certainly we can share and learn from one another, we as spirits having a human experience are very good at this and need to socialize with one another, but there is fine line. I believe one of the most effective ways you can get in touch with what is best for you. To pay attention to yourself, your inner dialogue and what you're feeling, not just thinking and intellectualizing irregardless of your personal spiritual or religious beliefs.

I happen to believe in the power of God as coming from within me and surrounding me and this works for me, but I don't expect everyone to understand where I'm coming from or go about living their life as I do. It's for them to figure out for themselves and when they're ready. It's about having faith and being of service and this means different things to different people. I just had to chime in about the word "sin" which I do not believe in at all. There is nothing that we have to prove to God, we simply have to believe. We are already perfect as God's creation. If God is perfect than so are we. This always made perfect sense to me from a young age and it still does today. :)

This is an eye opening thread, thanks for the dialogue and sharing of information. And Zaphirah, keep shining and thanks for sharing your experience and revelations.

Peace,

Crystal

[justinesmith]

Oh Crystal ~ thank you so much for putting in words what I couldn't. :D

[Flanny]

Unfortunately this isn't speaking of the original topic and it IS discussing religion. Unless you're willing to be called in the fallacies of your post according to religions other than your own it's not wise. Not everyone believes in God and not everyone that believes in God believes in the same God.

I'm a devout orthodox Christian but I won't get into theological debates or discussions on a post about disease and addiction.

You can call Cancer sin and you'd be wrong. Cancer may or may not come as a result of what you'd deem a sinful lifestyle but cancer is not sin. Likewise, addiction may come as a result of what you'd term a sinful lifestyle but addiction is not sin.

You may not believe that God has called you a sinner just because you haven't read or heard "the magic words" and you may believe that everyone is heading to the same place in the end anyways, regardless of how they live, or you may believe we're all in a cosmic toilet bowl. That's not the point of this thread.

The point of this thread is the disease (medical, not religious) of addiction, specifically food addiction. Addictions have been proven time and time over to fall into the category of disease. Religious zealots often try to blame every disease on SIN but many religions, including Christianity, have texts that assert that not all disease is the result of sin. Thus your arguments are theological in nature and do nothing but open more debate. I'll gladly discuss off line regarding several inaccuracies and fallacies within your post if you wish but this post is about the physical disease of food addiction.

The facts remain that diseases are physical, addictions are diseases, and food addiction is real.

I applaud the original post for its openness in these areas. I too am an addict. I'm a recovering alcoholic and I'm addicted to cooked foods. Neither of these are SIN. The alcoholism, like my father, was put upon me as a child due to extreme ignorance. I am not to be punished for the sins of my father according to most religions thus the alcoholism isn't a punishment, but rather a chemical dependency that as formed due to exposure before I had the ability to make choices. The food addictions are much the same. I was exposed to sweets and fatty foods from a very early age. Fast foods were promoted in the military where we were always in a hurry and rarely near the chow hall.

As an adult I recognize these addictions and realize the fatality of them. I've conquered alcohol daily and am in the process of conquering cooked foods. That which does not kill me makes me stronger. I have a choice. I can let cooked foods kill me or make me stronger. They will make me stronger by my overcoming the (physical disease of) addiction to them.

[Eva]

I tell ya what... I have read some really interesting perspectives here. This makes me wish we were "allowed" to have more thorough discussions involving food and addiction, sometimes involving different theological perspectives. I do realize that this forum is for raw food, and that people can very much become feisty or passionate when religion comes up and we're not "supposed to" bring it in... so I'm going to restrain myself from throwing in my two cents on that part...

BUT Zaphirah... I think it's really wonderful that you started this thread and were still around to see additional comments. You are doing so wonderfully!!

And thanks for all of the eye-opening perspectives. I feel really blessed to have read all of the them. :)

[justinesmith]

Oh my ~ this thread has seemed to have touched a raw nerve (I know it has mine on a few occasions). We all come from so many different places, some of us abused (count me in), some of us not. Most of us coming from a place of frustration over the feeling of a loss of control (food or otherwise). I am sure that no one meant anyone any ill will by their posts, they were just stating their opinion based on their own experiences and this is a forum where people are encouraged to state said opinion. Truly it doesn't REALLY matter what my opinion is except to me, I can only offer what I know from where I came from. Telling people they've sinned or calling people uneducated can be hurtful. Maybe we can try to support and not judge and remember that something that might mean nothing to one person is everything to someone else. I struggle with alcoholism and food addiction everyday. It is not who I am, it's just something I have to deal with. I got past the abuse ~ I can get past this too. THAT is who I am ~ someone who can do anything. :D

[Eva]

Yay Justine!!!!!!!!!!!! What wonderful words to read from you! You totally ARE someone who can do anything!!