Calcium Help

[Lunar*Fey]

I'm sure calcium has been discussed many times before here...but I have a specific question.

I just turned fifteen, and almost have osteoperosis (I guess I have bad osteopenia or something)...my bones are like that of a like 80 year old woman. It's terrible, i can like feel that my bones are not strong and healthy. when I track my nutrient intake on fitday.com the calcium generally only comes out to about 500 to 800. I know other nutrients are needed in building bones, but calcium is important too and although I am required to take calcium suppliments, I am still worried. But I've also noticed that sometimes fitday has innaccurate nutrient contents or simply doesn't track a nutrient that exists in a food I ate. I purchased some sesame seeds and I'm pretty sure sunflower seeds have a good amount of calcium as well, but I could definately be wrong. I eat greens (broccoli, spinach, etc. although it's hard for me to get a LOT a lot because my family is very unsupportive of raw. Can't wait to get a job this summer so I can buy my own groceries. )

I don't know what I'm asking really, just maybe some advice, info, knowledge, etc.

Thank you!

[jaurequi]

Hi, Lunar*Fey:)

Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would be taking calcium supplements and Vitamin D supplements.

This, of course, in addition to as many calcium-rich greens I could consume in a day in the best assimiliated form, which would be green smoothies. Greens would be the base of my diet. Fruit would be next.
I would inform my family that greens have the most [I]absorbable[I] calcium and to please buy it for me as I need it desperately! Do they refuse such a requests?

If it were possible, I'd find a physician knowledgeable about vegan diet and nutrition, such as Dr. Fuhrman.

Are you under any medical care? What type? Are you happy with it? Are you on medication?

For further information, here is Dr. Fuhrman's site (http://www.drfuhrman.com)
You can also go to Dr. Fuhrman's Blog (http://www.diseaseproof.com) and search the archives which has a ton of information.

Best,

[RawFoodieMom]

Look into your magnesium intake as well. Magnesium is a mineral needed in order for your body to properly assimilate all the calcium you're taking in. I don't know what foods magnesium is abundant in, but I'm sure someone else can chime in with that.

If you're not getting enough magnesium, your body will not get the benefits from all this calcium you're adding... :)

Debra

[robertandenith]

Drink a lot of almond milk! This has a lot of calcium. I wouldn't take vitamin d supplements, I just rather go outside in the sun and get a tan or something! (lol) seriously, Sun is not only a good Vitamin D promoter but it's been proved to minimize depression, maximize skin improvement, and many other ailments. Sun (in moderation) is the best natural source out there, and IT'S FREE! I am always out there everyday at least for 15-20 minutes or so. It feels so goooood! :D

[robertandenith]

Look into your magnesium intake as well. Magnesium is a mineral needed in order for your body to properly assimilate all the calcium you're taking in. I don't know what foods magnesium is abundant in, but I'm sure someone else can chime in with that.
If you're not getting enough magnesium, your body will not get the benefits from all this calcium you're adding... :)



Mushrooms has a combination of both, but then you will have to eat like a whole cup of it a day maybe?

[jujube]

Since you're only 15, you still have a few years of bone-building left, so it's very possible you'll be able to have normal bones once you're an adult. Food might not be the only factor here, though. Are you underweight? Have you ever had an eating disorder? If so, no amount of minerals will improve your bone density until you get to a healthier weight.

Weight-bearing exercise, especially strength training, will also encourage your bones to get stronger.

As for minerals, it's also important that you don't get too much phosphorus. You should be eating more calcium than phosphorus. If you eat more phosphorus than calcium, your body takes calcium out of your bones to balance it out. So perhaps go easy on the high-phosphorus foods like nuts, seeds, and grains.

[Lunar*Fey]

Jarequi,
I do take calcium suppliments. I just want to try and get my calcium mostly from natural sources. I heard that unhulled sesame seeds were a good source of calcium so I bought myself some of those. I would love to make greens the base of my diet, in fact I ended up doing that one day and felt really good. The only problem is that I can't because of the lack of them in my house. (it's also hard to get over 3000 calories a day this way) Every time I ask for anything my mom gets really really aggrivated. I think that's one of the reasons I ended up losing weight again in the first place...which might not really make sense but I guess my mind works in strange ways. I'll try and talk to my mom about it, I shouldn't have to sacrifice my health because I am afraid to ask my mom for food. thanks for your advice. :)

Rawfoodiemom,
thanks for informing me, I just looked and according to fitday I get plenty of magnesium. I'm not sure what foods it is in either but apparently I am eating good sources. Thanks :)

RobertandEnith,
I agree about the vitamin D. The sun feels soooo good. It's been dark and rainy the past week and I can't stand it. I'm moving to a tropical place as soon as I am able to, I love the sun...and I'm craving it pretty badly right now. We don't have any almonds right now but I've made sunflower milk and I bought some unhulled sesame seeds as well. These have calcium too, I believe...right? according to fitday, a half cup sunflower seeds has 8% calcium...actually I don't know how good that is but I think it's pretty good? Thanks for the info about mushrooms as well. :)

Jujube,
That is what my hopes are, I hope to be able to rebuild my bones before it is too late. I am underweight...but I am gaining now that I've started raw and increased my calories to over 3000 a day (doctor also said no physical activity :(). I am 5'4 with a very small frame to begin with and definately not done growing yet. Been this height for a while and I just turned 15, I hope I didn't stunt my growth with malnutrition. I lost a lot of weight due to really bad depression and then the doctor TOLD me without having ever met me before that I had an eating disorder simply by seeing that I had lost weight. After that I started thinking about it and then actually did develop an eating disorder. Now I am gaining again though. I have gained about 7 pounds on my own, most of them after starting raw. I thought my mother would be really proud and happy, but she isn't...feels like I can never please her no matter what. *sighs*. sorry, off topic. yes I should probably start doing some weight training. It's just hard to because I feel like I'm not supposed to because I had an eating disorder, very complicated and hard to explain sort of subconcious type thing. gr. Thank you for the information about phosphorus...I do have to be careful to get enough fat in my diet as I am gaining weight...according to fitday I get maybe 1494 mg on average per day on a diet of over 3000 calories.

thanks everyone! :)

[jaurequi]

Lunar*Fey,

I'm going to repeat myself because this is *very* important: Get Vitamin D supplements to take with your calcium.
Another important aspect of absorbing calcium: Do not consume any Vitamin A in supplemental form.

I'm glad you're going to ask your mom for more greens. :) Make sure to tell her that this is they highest concentration of calcium you can consume in food. You will get ALL those phytonutrients and minerals that will aid your body in actually absorbing that calcium (be sure to avoid caffeine as well, which leaches calcium from your bones!) Sesame seeds are okay, but greens are much, much better. But do take them since you need calories. Almonds also have some calcium, but will help you up your caloric intake. Pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, ALL nuts will up your calories very quickly.

Flood that body with greens!!

Okay? Take care :)
Best,

[Lunar*Fey]

thanks Jarequi :) All the information you gave me is really helpful. I will try to talk to my mom, but I know that it never does any good for some reason. No matter what I am talking about she always insists that her view of things is right and whatever she knows is best. I don't hold anything against her for it, in fact I am extremely understanding and never hold a grudge especially not to my mother. I know she just loves me and cares about me, but she just isn't at all open minded and doesn't question authority...just accepts everything as she's told. I've ALWAYS been one to inquire and become informed and yearn for knowledge so I can make my own opinions and decisions. ah well, sorry for babbling on. Any way I don't consume any caffeine at all that I know of. Thanks again! :)

[NFrawRUNNER]

I identify with both you and your mom so well. My first tidbit of advice is to hang in there. It's hard being 15....I still remember. I'm 39 and HAVE a 15 year old! In your mom's defense, it's hard for us moms to realize our "children" are becoming young adults that may have different viewpoints. For so long you (kids) have looked up to "mom" as the greatest in the world. Then, kids suddenly begin changing, growing and expressing their own opinions and values. Guess what (and I hate to tell you this) MY MOTHER QUESTIONS ME CONSTANTLY ABOUT MY "DIET" :o ....which of course is not really a diet but a way of life and different belief system than hers, but you get the point! I also have osteoporosis that I am working hard to really reverse!!!! My most recent bone densisty screening indicated a slight decrease from last year....I am a bit bummed about that but it wasn't as much as is typical for a year once you start to lose bone mass....Have you had a bone density test? Do you know what your deficiency % was? My doctor would like me to start hormone replacement therapy + Fosomax but I am not ready for that. My osteoporosis stems from low estrogen levels (as an elderly postmenapausal woman) that caused ammenorhea, etc....I went "raw" beginning last August and know in my heart it has helped but now I have to convince family and doctors. I do now see my chiropractor for nutritional advice. He is also a homeopath and clinical nutritionist that follows "Standard Process" protocols. I am now taking whole food supplements "recommended" by him that involve things other than calcium....like magnesium, vitamin D, etc.... Maybe you can check with your local natural foods store (and see if you can get a job there!!!) to see what whole foods supplements they could recommend.....Do you have a period? low body fat? They don't know why my estrogen levels decreased but my "cycles" stopped July, 2003.....possibly because I am a runner and have low body fat.....BUT I am NOT "too skinny" in that I have HIGH muscle mass...I just think if you can backtrack to what started your osteoporosis to begin with you can go from there. The GOOD thing is that you are young and you can continue building bone mass to about 30...So my LONGWINDED advice would be to hammer away on foods rich in all the important things such as mentioned before. + herbal remedies. I make a tea with such herbs as oatstraw, comfrey root, horsetail, red clover, ????? and others that I had researched to help with healing/strengthening/bone/joint issues....I apologize for rambling. It just seems you have so many dilemmas going on and need a pat on the back. Keep your chin up. Keep learning about raw and its benefits. Maybe you can help educate others and "mom" willcome around. Have you tried having a talk with her? Maybe if that is too difficult you can write her a letter. I sense THIS is bothering you just as much as the osteoporosis. Stay true to yourself but respect your mom's interest in looking out for her baby girl too. Good luck and keep us posted!
Diantha

[lissomllama]

I eat greens (broccoli, spinach, etc. although it's hard for me to get a LOT a lot because my family is very unsupportive of raw. Can't wait to get a job this summer so I can buy my own groceries. )

I don't know what I'm asking really, just maybe some advice, info, knowledge, etc.
Thank you!

Looks like your family needs to get over themselves and supply you with what you need to be healthy. They are partly in charge of your health until you're 18 and it's their responsibility to keep you healthy. You might consider talking to them about your health needs and let them know that raw is very important to you. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this ignorance. You shouldn't have to wait to get a job to get the food you need when you have parents that are supposed to take care of that. Maybe I'm just lucky that I was raised in an environment where my healthy eating habits were supported but that's ridiculous.

As far as calcium goes, if you need to take a supplement, take Citrical (calcium with citrus is better absorbed than with other absorbants) with vitamin D and magnesium. Also, get a little sun each day (be careful of tanning and burning though) because sun exposure makes vitamin D in your body. I hope you figure this out and you already know you need lots of greens and broccoli.

[robertandenith]

awww Lunar*Fey (((((((((hugs and more hugs)))))))))

could you maybe print this out for her? the whole thread? that will be REALLY helpful. I found different articles for you!!!
--------------------------------------
Most dietary magnesium comes from vegetables, particularly dark green, leafy vegetables. Other foods that are good sources of magnesium are:
Legumes and seeds
Nuts (such as almonds and cashews)
Whole grains (such as brown rice and millet)
Fruits or vegetables (such as bananas, dried apricots, and avocados)
----------------------------------------
Also this link which is the best link I found:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp
----------------------------------------
Also this one:
http://www.hoptechno.com/book29l.htm
----------------------------------------
oh wow and check this out!
http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html

So I guess Alfafa sprouts are the best thing for you right now, and they are sooo easy to grow and cheap too! :)

I have noticed that certain foods have to be cooked in order to activate the concentration of magnesium that's why people on SAD have excessive accumulation of magnesium in their bodies which can cause bladder stones. Everything in moderation will no cause harm I guess.

Anyways, I really hope you feel better soon.

[jimi]

[(doctor also said no physical activity :().
thanks everyone! :)[/

This part totally bums me out. How can a doctor justify no physical activity?????

[Lunar*Fey]

Dianthea,
Thank you so much, your reply is wonderful.
No, I don't have my period. I don't know if you read this but in one reply I said that when I was about 13 I started getting extreme depression and really losing my appetite, yet I didn't really notice. I was just rarely hungry any more. Then I went to a new doctor for a regular check up and she said I had lost almost ten pounds since last year at a time when I was "supposed" to be gaining. She said it in a very accusing way and I got really scared. Then she told me to leave and told my mom that I had an eating disorder. She hadn't even talked to me or known me at all, all she knew was I lost ten pounds. So my mom believed her and got really worried and then everyone started telling me to eat more eat more and they started watching what I was eating and telling me what to eat and how much and checking what was in my lunch box and so on. That's when I started to actually develope in eating disorder, by then I was probably just 14. then I lost a bit more weight. I have always been very slim to begin with....so this was bad. I had gotten my period maybe once or twice. but I don't any more. I have gained back to 85.5 pounds at a height of 5'4. My family are all really late bloomers and I have always been the same, oh and I just turned 15. I am now about nine pounds under the weight I was before I ever lost any weight. Strangely I do have a lot more body fat just from gaining weight...and not much muscle though. I used to be really athletic. Now I'm like a couch potatoe...it's depressing. I have had a bone density test and the results were horrible. I don't know the percentage but doc said I had the bones of an 80 year old woman. I have always been small boned, and this is another new doctor who didn't know me before my eating disorder. so she doesn't know that. but it doesn't matter, I don't want the bones of an 80 year old woman! I want to be strong and healthy and athletic again. Any way, good luck with your bone density and thank you so much!

Lissomllama,
I agree with what you have said although I understand why my mom is acting the way she is. I don't mean I agree with it at all, just understand. She just wants me to be "normal" again, eat whatever foods she buys. She wants to feel that she is in control of her daughter's health. She has always liked to be in control of me, although she doesn't realize it and I don't hold anything against her for it at all. But honestly, I don't trust her with my health anymore. I am 15 and I need to be allowed to explore and find myself, find out what is good for me and how I want to live. thank you so much lissomllama!

RobertandEnith,
Aww thank you! *returns HUGS* I may be able to print this out for her, I'll think about it. It's just every time I write her a letter or try to talk to her it just ends up getting her mad. She gets mad at me extremely easily. All I have to say is now I am able to really listen to my body. I know that if I really listen it will tell me what it wants. And she'll flip out and tell me that I sound anorexic and insane. and she'll start getting teary eyed and spazzy. Any way, thank you so much for the links, those are really helpful!! I read them. Funny, I didn't know alfalfa sprouts had magnesium or calcium in them but yesterday I was at the store while my mom was buying milk and bread and cereal for the family and I went right to the alfalfa sprouts and really wanted some. Once I get a job (if that ever happens) this summer I will buy some alalfa and sprout it. thanks so much for the support and information!!

Jimi,
I know, bummed me out too. I feel that in order to get healthy again and gain weight healthily I have to get some exercise...do the currently impossible and it will become possible. Before I lost weight I used to be very very athletic. I'm losing all that now and it's quite depressing.

[veganman]

lunar Fey -

I am a recovering anorexic. Your specs sound the same as mine were when I was your age - 80 lbs, 5'4". I am now almost 40 y.o., at a healthier weight (still underweight, but working on that). I wish I had never done this to myself in my teens because I think I really messed things up. At this time in your life is when you are building bones and getting the height that you will have for life. Anorexia really affects your mental processes, strength, energy, hormones, internal organs, etc, and your body needs enough food and calories to do all of these things plus grow and allow a positive outlook.

I know this can all be hard to hear right now because the future seems irrelevant, but I advise you to get yourself to a healthy weight with good food and listen to the doctor.

I wish I could go back and treat myself better than I did.

[rawpriestess]

I didn't read all the posts, so if this has been suggested, then I'm sorry.

sesame seeds, or tahini has massive amounts of calcium

[Lunar*Fey]

Veganman,
thank you :). Believe me, I wish I had never done this to myself either. But it wasn't something I chose, I got depressed and lost weight and then it turned into anorexia. I got so sick of it I basicly admitted myself to a rehab center when it was suggested. I understand what you are saying, but honestly to me the future does not seem irrelevant. My future is the only thing I have right now. ALso, I am a little confused..are you suggesting that I stop eating raw? I am definately getting enough calories (I track it on fitday, over 3000 on the average day and no less than 2800). I am ready to love and respect myself, I am ready to be more confident, I am ready to completely be rid of my horrible depression (which I extremely rarely experience any more). thank you again :)

Rawpriestess,
I did buy myself some unhulled sesame seeds :) Can I make a tahini out of that? thank you :)

[veganman]

Lunar*Fey -

No, I am not suggesting you stop eating raw. I am trying that for myself, found I lost some weight, and am having difficulty getting enought calories. If you are sure you are getting enought calories to gain to and maintain a healthy weight - awesome job, keep it up! Also, make sure you are getting enough fat, as that is necessary for basic processes to occur. Are you able to absorb the nutrients? That would be a good question for you doctor.

I am reading Parent's Guide to Childhood Eating Disorders (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805066497/103-4879116-3748638?v=glance&n=283155) right now and finding it very helpful. I don't know if it might help your parents, but it gives helpful info for parents on how to work with kids to help them get healthy. I am reading it because it has a neat food plan guide.

You are on a difficult journey, but I am confidant that you are headed in the right direction.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I would suggest weight bearing exerises too. Not only would it help your bone density, but would give you lots of healthy lean muscle. Since you probably won't be able to join a gym, I'm sure there are some great things you can do around the house. Even if you take walks with hand weights or so some reps with large canned goods that would help immensly.

[veganman]

I forgot to mention that the reason your doctor is probably restricting your exercise is because your body needs all of it's energy to rebuild. Once you start putting on some weight again and maintaining it, then doing some exercise will make sense. Right now, it would just tax your body too much.

[rawpriestess]

Lunar*Fey, yes, you can make tahini from sesame seeds, or sesame milk with some dates and vanilla, mmmmmmmm that is good too. that will give you massive amounts of calcium,. you only need about 1 tsp each day of the seeds to have enough calcium.


I have never been thin my entire life, although I've probably been malnurished my entire life.

My mom was the opposite, she thought I would get fat, so she put me on diets starting in the third grade, that was when I was 7 years old, again, I was not fat or even plump, she was afraid I would get fat, so I developed an eating disorder very early, and struggled with my weight my entire life, still am.

I am eating 100% raw, and although I feel great, I still am way obese, and I hate that, I love feeling good, I just wish that my outside body, would show the world that I have been eating and being a "good girl" NOW.

Life is so funny, our mothers engrain so much into us, love, honor, charity, hope, kindness, joy, nurturing, and low self esteme, bad body image, and why? because it was ingrained in them? why? because not too long ago, you had to look good to have a man support you, or you could be a nurse, a secretary, a waitress or a whore, those were pretty much your choices in life, if you didn't marry, then you could work you tail off, and be stuck, the stigma of the "old maid" and all.

well, I wasn't going to let that happen to me, so at 14 I got married, had a child and got married a few more times, I never wanted anyone calling me an "old maid", consequently, I have about a gazillion careers too. LOL

Life is funny.

[Lunar*Fey]

Veganman,
thank you for all your advice :). I am not sure if I am able to absorb the nutrients...is there a way I can tell? I will ask my doctor. As for the book, how is it? Maybe I will suggest it to my mom...what does it advocate? I understand what you mean about exercise. It is just hard for me because all my life I've been very very active and now I have become a couch potatoe, I just know it will be such a struggle to get my old healthier lifestyle back. Thing is, I've gained about 7 pounds so far as of last time I went to the doctor, and I've definately been maintaining. The goal my doctor and I set is about 4.5 pounds away...not that she'll consider me healthy then but that was the goal we set.

Sharon in Colorado,
I agree, the few times I have done some weight bearing exercise I felt better immediately. I could honestly like feel it in my bones...maybe that was just my imagination but then I didn't really know for sure that it built bones the first time. My mom has some old leg, arm, and core toning tapes that aren't cardio, maybe I could use those? They are only eight minutes long each but they seem pretty good...
thanks :)

Rawpriestess,
Do you know what I would add to the sesame seeds to make tahini? Just blend them with water, or? I've heard about sesame milk too, I'll try that once I get some dates...or would dark agave work? I should be getting some of that in the mail soon. Actually it was supposed to come by friday, so it should be soon! Are you sure one TEAspoon? or did you mean tablespoon? On fitday it said .25 of a cup gave like 350 mg and I need like 1500 mg. It's hard that parents pressure their children in such ways, although they usually only have the best intentions. But it is sad that she started you on diets as a seven year old who was not over weight. Don't worry, your outside body will show that someday :). I know it is hard to wait...but at least YOU know you are doing what is best for your body and you know that your weight will regulate and become healthy.
I know what you mean about life and how much of an impact mothers tend to have on us. I hope that one day I will be a good example to my children (if I ever gain the ability to have them, I've heard some who have anorexia at an early age lose the ability to ever ovulate).
You were married with a child at 14? If you don't mind me asking about it, was the child healthy and did you keep it? I'm sorry if these questions are offensive I don't mean for them to be in any way.
lol about your many careers. Are you an overachiever lol. I love the artwork of yours that I have seen. you have so much talent :)

[veganman]

Veganman,
thank you for all your advice :). I am not sure if I am able to absorb the nutrients...is there a way I can tell? I will ask my doctor. As for the book, how is it? Maybe I will suggest it to my mom...what does it advocate? I understand what you mean about exercise. It is just hard for me because all my life I've been very very active and now I have become a couch potatoe, I just know it will be such a struggle to get my old healthier lifestyle back. Thing is, I've gained about 7 pounds so far as of last time I went to the doctor, and I've definately been maintaining. The goal my doctor and I set is about 4.5 pounds away...not that she'll consider me healthy then but that was the goal we set.

The book seems very good. It focuses on getting the child well, setting limits, creating a food plan, choosing your battles. It might be good for both of you to read. I found it at my library.

Congratulations on gaining 7 pounds. That is absolutely wonderful. Keep up the good work!

Regarding absorption - your doc will be able to help you better on that than I can...I am trying to figure it out for myself right now!

[NFrawRUNNER]

I found this interesting for those of us trying to defend our eating habits and it made me less "FEARFUL" of my most recent BMD test results....Sorry it's so lengthy but I thought it was important to copy most of the article:

"Raw-food dieters' light bones may be healthy

By Jim Dryden

Vegetarians who don't cook their food have abnormally low bone mass, usually a sign of osteoporosis and increased fracture risk.
But a School of Medicine research team has found that raw-food vegetarians have other biological markers indicating their bones, although light in weight, may be healthy.
Luigi Fontana

The study, published in the March 28 issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine, was led by Luigi Fontana, M.D., Ph.D., research instructor in medicine in the Division of Geriatrics and Nutritional Science.

Fontana and his colleagues studied 18 strict raw-food vegans ages 33-85. They all ate a diet that not only lacked animal products but also included only raw foods such as a wide variety of vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, sprouted grains and legumes, dressed with olive oil. They had been on this diet for an average of 3.6 years.

The researchers compared them to people who ate a more typical American diet, including refined carbohydrates, animal products and cooked food. The groups were matched according to age, sex and socioeconomic status.

In both groups, Fontana's team measured body mass index, bone mass, bone mineral density, markers of bone turnover, levels of vitamin D and inflammatory markers such as C-reactive protein and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1).

Those on the raw-food diet had lower body mass indices and significantly lower bone mass in important skeletal regions such as the hip and lumbar spine, sites where low bone mass often means osteoporosis and fracture risk. But they didn't have other biological markers that typically accompany osteoporosis.

"For example, it is clear from research that higher rates of bone turnover equate to higher risk of fracture," Fontana said. "But in these people, although their bone mass is low, their bone turnover rates are normal."

The raw-food group also had less inflammation, indicated by low levels of C-reactive protein, which is made by the liver as a response to inflammation in the body.

Members of that group also had lower levels of IGF-1, one of the most important growth factors regulated by calorie and protein intake. High levels of IGF-1 have been linked to risk of breast cancer and prostate cancer.

And in spite of the fact that the raw-food group didn't drink milk or eat cheese, they had higher vitamin D levels than people on a typical Western diet. Fontana attributes the vitamin D levels to sun exposure.

"These people are clever enough to expose themselves to sunlight to increase concentrations of vitamin D," he said. "I thought vitamin D might be a problem for them, but it was not."

Fontana also measured levels of the hormone leptin, which seems to play an important role in the regulation of bone metabolism. In some transgenic mice, low leptin levels are related to high bone mass. But interestingly, the raw-food dieters had both low levels of leptin and low bone mass.

In short, the people on the raw-food diet are lighter with lower body fat. They have less bone, but they have normal markers of bone turnover, higher-than-normal vitamin D and very low levels of leptin and inflammatory markers.

So are their bones healthy or not?

Current clinical measurements would indicate that many in this group have osteoporosis or less-severe bone loss called osteopenia. But with low levels of inflammation, normal bone turnover and high vitamin D, Fontana said the usual clinical parameters may not apply.

"For example, post-menopausal, frail women with osteoporosis have low bone mass and an increased risk of fracture," he said. "But they also have increased circulating levels of inflammatory molecules called cyotkines. That's a different biologic condition from what we are seeing in the raw-food vegans."

Fontana is proposing that in spite of low bone mass, those on raw-food diets actually may have a good bone quality and, therefore, healthy bones.

"I base that hypothesis on the fact that their bone turnover markers are normal, vitamin D is higher than normal and inflammation is low," he said. "We think it's possible these people don't have increased risk of fracture but that their low bone mass is related to the fact that they are lighter because they take in fewer calories."

Fontana said more study is needed to prove that raw-food vegans have light-but-healthy bones. One study could involve following large groups of them for years to look at fracture rates. Other, more imminent studies will involve using micro MRI to get a 3-D look at bone architecture and structure.

In spite of their low bone mass, people on raw food diets actually may have good bone quality and, therefore, healthy bones, because their bone turnover markers are normal, their vitamin D is higher than normal, and their inflammation is low."