Detox?

[veganman]

Me again with more questions.

About a year ago, I fasted for about 10 days (fruit and vegatable juices and water). I lost about 10 - 15 pounds, was exhausted, anxious, and jittery. I slowly gained the weight back over the last year, still feeling the same symptoms and a lot of fatigue. I thought I would start raw to see if that helped (before this past Sunday, the cooked foods I was eating was a cooked sprouted grain in the morning and cooked sprouted beans and cooked sprouted rice at night.) I drink 2 cups of rejuvelac every day, take probiotics, enzymes, and anything else I can do, but nothing seems to help. I was exercising 3 times a week, changed it to 6, back to 3 - nothing is helping. Since I started 100% raw, the symptoms are worse. I plan to stick with this for the 30 days, but this is tough - just getting out of bed in the morning, coming up the stairs, etc. I did not eat much fat for the last 20 years, but have been adding fat this past year to try to help.

I have had liver, thyroid, adrenal, blood sugar, b-12, iron, and many other lab panels done with no outstanding issues.

I also started an incredibly stressful job last year, but am having a hard time thinking that is it and that there is nothing I can do.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

[PhoeniX]

I was pretty exhausted before I started RAW, which I attribute to burning myself out with heavy work stress for about 5 years, shift hours, poor diet, being overweight, but when I started raw it got worse as well. It was a good 3-4 weeks into RAW before I felt like I had the energy to start going to the gym and while my energy is increasing, it is a very gradual thing for me. Many people get a huge burst of energy when they start RAW, but not me.

One of my best friends has been diagnosed with adrenal fatigue and hearing him talk about it, I can relate. I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't playing a role for me and quite possibly for you as well. It can take quite a while to build the body up again when it is burned out, but I personally don't see any positive alternative to it.

It is possible that this doesn't relate to you in any way, but if it does then I would suggest giving your body a break. Let it be tired and heal with RAW foods as much as it needs to. When we sleep is where the body does a lot of its healing so do not deprive yourself of that time. I was sleeping a good 12 hours a day at the beginning. Now I am at a much more reasonable 8 hours a day and feel a lot better (I am 7 weeks into my RAW experience now).

What kind of exercise do you do when you go to the gym? I suggest you do not push yourself to exhaustion at this time. Your body has enough to work on right now with the healing load it has, so do exercise if it helps, but don't overtax yourself.

Also, you might consider seeing a nutritionist (though with the tests it sounds like you may already be doing this) or a holistic healer to help diagnose what is going on for you.

Best wishes,
J

[veganman]

Phoenix -

thank you for the reply. Yes, adrenal fatigue is one thing I am considering. I am currently taking Adrenal Health by Gaia. I should probably up the dose and see if that helps.

Your friend....what type of professional diagnosed him? What has he found helpful? I would also recommend reading Adrenal Fatigue by James Wilson, if he hasn't already.

Thanks for the suggestions......very helpful and supportive. Thank you.

[misslinda]

I have had liver, thyroid, adrenal, blood sugar, b-12, iron, and many other lab panels done with no outstanding issues.

I also started an incredibly stressful job last year, but am having a hard time thinking that is it and that there is nothing I can do.

Any thoughts/suggestions?


Do you mean prior to fasting you had the symptoms are after fasting you still had them or you've had them prior,during and after????

Can you describe your symptoms in detail---onset and ANY other pains or symptoms?

Those tests don't explain alot of "issues" that alternative methods do.

What kind of job?


:)

[rawpriestess]

I would get rid of that stressful job, no matter what.

I mean take a look at it this way, you have a highly stressful job, for what purpose, to pay your bills, and why do you have bills? because you need a care to get to your highly stressful job, you need clothes for that job, you need shoes, and fuel for the car, etc.

If you quit your job, and work at a less stressful job, or out of your home, or babysit, or whatever you will probably be much less stressed, and much happier, which in turn will allow you to live a longer and happier life, etc. etc.

I once counselled a woman, who was distraught, because she had two small children and another one on the way, her husband, wanted a new car, because his commute was over an hour, and she was in a high paying job, with high stress, and couldn't find the extra money for it.

So I said why not quit your job and move closer to hubbies, so he won't need a new car? and she freaked, she said she HAD to have a job,

so I told her to write down why.

she listed a ton of bills,

when we looked at her salary, and looked at the bills, we noticed something,
she was paying 2 weeks salary for day care alone, then she had this huge clothing bill, hair stylist bill, car bill, fuel and parking, then she had car maintainance, and kids clothes, and special kids lunches and a housekeepper and a gardener and tennis lessons and her gym membership, and luncheons out with collegues and and and

so I said what would you no longer need if you quit your job, and stayed home and took care of your own kids, and did your own house work and did your own lawn, and didn't need the tennis lessons and the gym to stay in shape because you would be doing all this work at home

and when she had it all figured out, it cost her over $2,000 each month to go to work, she would save over $2,000 each month to stay home and take care of her own kids.

can you believe that?

she was floored, told her hubby that night, her life instantly changed over night, she is happy with little stress, hubby is happy with his not so new car, and the kids are very happy to be raised by mom, instead of a day care.

She doesn't have power lunches anymore, she has tea with her daughters, she doesn't wear $300 silk blouses from Nordstroms anymore, she wear jeans and cotton blouses and looks about 20 years younger.

[Raw Jewelrylady]

RP..I just have to say I LOVE your posts. You always make so much sense. :cool:

Lana

[veganman]

Do you mean prior to fasting you had the symptoms are after fasting you still had them or you've had them prior,during and after????

Can you describe your symptoms in detail---onset and ANY other pains or symptoms?

Those tests don't explain alot of "issues" that alternative methods do.

What kind of job?

Hi Misslinda -

I have been a strict low-fat vegan for 20 years. Last year at this time, I was feeling lethargic and bloated and decided to try the fast. During and after the fast I experienced jitteriness, anxiety, fatigue, echoing in my ears, systemic exhaustion, difficulty concentrating, numbness in my extremeties, feeling cold, foggy thinking, memory difficulties, muscle fatigue. That is all I can think of at this time.

About a month before this, I began having bursitis is my shoulder that I have been treating with stretches and turmeric. It is healing, but very slowly. Started losing my hair a couple of years ago.

Western medicine wants to put me on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety. I have also been told to eat more calories and fat, however I am eating more than I did before this began.

The work I do is on a crisis hotline.

RawPriestess - I have considered the job aspect and plan to get out soon. I find that I still have symptoms when on vacation, so either I need to get away for a longer period of time or there is something else going on.

I appreciate everyone's input and look forward to reading any other thoughts.

I also decided tonight to try a few days of a simpler diet. We have been making nut burgers and complicated recipes in the transition that have me eating a lot more fat than I am used to. My plan right now is 1 or 2 greens/fruit/hemp shakes in the morning, lentils/flax seeds/veggie salad at lunch, nuts or seeds in the afternoon, lentils and veggies at night. See how that goes for a few days.

[rawpriestess]

Yes, eating simpler is always a good thing.

[veganman]

Misslinda -

did you have any other thoughts around this from my answers to your questions?

[PhoeniX]

Hi Veganman,

I haven't forgotten you. I will contact my friend and find out where and by whom he was tested.

Cheers

[honeybee joy]

Originally Posted By veganman
I am currently taking Adrenal Health by Gaia.

I was taking that, but since committing to raw, I don't need it anymore. I do take cortef also, but I was taking cortef for a long time and I noticed a difference when I started the Adrenal Health. I do have low adrenal.

Good luck.
Lissa

[RawTruth]

I also decided tonight to try a few days of a simpler diet. We have been making nut burgers and complicated recipes in the transition that have me eating a lot more fat than I am used to. My plan right now is 1 or 2 greens/fruit/hemp shakes in the morning, lentils/flax seeds/veggie salad at lunch, nuts or seeds in the afternoon, lentils and veggies at night. See how that goes for a few days.If you don't mind me chiming in -- I'm wondering why you're eating so many lentils. You might consider avoiding the legumes unless they're completely sprouted -- as in green shoots. Also, pack as many greens in as possible. What about wheatgrass and/or sprouts? Rather than nuts, how about avocadoes?

On the other hand, if you're just into the beginning of your 30 day challenge, it's very probable that you're detoxing ... and detoxing in a major way. Just letting yourself eat transition food for the month is a good thing. Going more simple and more "pure" may accelerate your detox symptoms. With your job, you may not want to do that.

I also was a low-fat vegan and vegetarian for over 20 years. And I had health issues occur despite that. The way I feel now because of this lifestyle (going on two years now for me) compared to low-fat cooked food vegetarian is like the difference between night and day. But ... it happens over time for some of us. For me, it wasn't overnight. Looking back over my journal, I recall wondering during the first few months whether healing was happening ... but ... it was. My body was just doing its thing. I think, perhaps, yours is doing the same.

There is a difference, though. I didn't supplement at all. After a while, I did use probiotics and enzymes and I used raw hemp seeds to make a "milk" over my raw granola that I used to transition from eating crunchy breakfast stuff to eating all fruit or drinking green smoothies. But, I don't add hemp or other things to them. Also, I didn't use rejuvelac. Have you been to a healing institute ... or followed Ann Wigmore's teachings? Is that why the rejuvelac? Just wondering.

I'm hoping you'll not only stick with this long enough to experience the freedom and joy that's possible, but that you'll keep us posted on how it's going with you!!

Be well.

[veganman]

RawTruth -

I am eating a lot of sprouted lentils (sans green leaves) to try to boost protein and calories. I am eating about a bunch of collards or kale a day plus a bunch of broccoli. I don't want all of my calories to come from fats and I am having trouble with the tasted of the soaked or sprouted grains. I enjoy bodybuilding and have difficulty gaining weight if I am not careful. I have done a few posts about grain suggestions. Any suggestions you have would be great.

I am also interested in taking a raw class. I see that you are an instructor in So Cal. I am not too far and could make a trip if you are still teaching.

Also, which of my foods that I refer to are transisitional? I have been 100% raw for a week now and want to make sure that I don't lose weight or gain fat.

I used to drink kombucha to help with probiotics and digestion, but I didn't like the sugar or caffeine aspect, so I switched to rejuvelac.

[misslinda]

WOW 20 year vegan. Did you do the traditional tofu,soy etc?

Just curious, what led you to become vegan? What transpired during that time?

Be good to your kidneys :)

[RawTruth]

RawTruth -

I am eating a lot of sprouted lentils (sans green leaves) to try to boost protein and calories. I am eating about a bunch of collards or kale a day plus a bunch of broccoli. I don't want all of my calories to come from fats and I am having trouble with the tasted of the soaked or sprouted grains. I enjoy bodybuilding and have difficulty gaining weight if I am not careful. I have done a few posts about grain suggestions. Any suggestions you have would be great.The one thing that's great about eating this way is that we can discard the old legume/grain protein "solution" that we embraced as cooked food vegetarians. In fact, grains and (most) legumes are low vibrational foods (as described by Brian Clement). Mung beans (sprouted) is an exception. I personally eat very few grains -- and, when I do, it's just minimal amounts like the sprouted barley in Alissa's chili recipe. Or sprouted buckwheat in pizza dough (though buckwheat isn't really a grain). My training and research has taught me that grains aren't that great for our bodies.


I am also interested in taking a raw class. I see that you are an instructor in So Cal. I am not too far and could make a trip if you are still teaching.I absolutely am. In fact, I am now focusing full-time on raw food classes. I have a Level 1 class Tuesday April 25th followed immediately by a Level 2 class Wednesday and Thursday April 26th & 27th. Also, a Level 1 on May 6th ... and others. You can look at my calendar by clicking my signature below this post where it says "Living on Live Food Teacher". I am doing some classes that aren't listed on there also for private groups, but definitely contact me if there's a time you'd prefer. I can work with you on it. Also, if you don't already have Alissa's book (which is AMAZING!!) and DVD, I have some.


Also, which of my foods that I refer to are transisitional? I have been 100% raw for a week now and want to make sure that I don't lose weight or gain fat.You may very likely lose weight -- as your body has its own "mind" and knows intuitively what it must do now that it's getting fresh, ripe, living foods. Whatever it's doing to heal internally may result in some weight loss. Weight training is the way to keep up ... or regain the weight. But ... unless you're severely underweight to begin with, you may lose regardless. I did at the beginning and am only now regaining it. I must say, thought, that I have NOT been weight lifting like a good girl. So, your result may be different. But -- the main thing to keep in mind is that this is a radical (and welcome) change for your body and it WILL react. Tiredness, bowel changes, emotional changes, weight loss are all possible ... and even probable at some time, oftentimes at the beginning. Nothing to try to avoid, though, since it's inevitable and all good, really.


I used to drink kombucha to help with probiotics and digestion, but I didn't like the sugar or caffeine aspect, so I switched to rejuvelac.I agree with you about the kombucha -- routinely drinking mold and sugar isn't so great. I'm wondering about your focus on probiotics and digestion -- taking probiotics and enzymes AND drinking rejuvelac seems like it may be overkill. Have you had digestive problems?

[veganman]

I agree with you about the kombucha -- routinely drinking mold and sugar isn't so great. I'm wondering about your focus on probiotics and digestion -- taking probiotics and enzymes AND drinking rejuvelac seems like it may be overkill. Have you had digestive problems?

I often get bloated, so I started researching and found that rejuvelac was supposed to be good for that and healthy, as well. I figure, with everything in our environment, you can't have too much probiotics in your intestine!

About Brian Clement - are there any books by him you recommend?

[RawTruth]

You might consider starting out with just one -- or none -- to give your body time to adapt to the raw and living foods. It needs to be allowed to begin healing. And, as you begin getting more in touch with it, you can see what happens with additions and adjustments after a while.

I don't know how you're taking them, and you probably already know this, but, for healing, the enzymes should be taken on an empty stomach. Regardless, it should be 20-30 minutes before a meal rather than with it or after it. (This was confirmed in recent talks with/by Brain Clement)

I hope you're not offended by me focusing on this, but, man, you are ingesting a lot of probiotic/enzymes, and I just have feeling that even though it may seem counter-intuitive, that may be a bit too much right now.

Ummmm ... the Optimal Foods book is good, but I've heard that his newer one is great. Haven't read it yet. I'd suggest The China Study if you haven't already read it. It's fantastic. And, very recent and research-based.

[dreamrawalwz]

Maybe I missed it, but are you just starting out 100% raw? If you are you need to give your body time to heal. I think in your case it may be best to eat as simple as you can (Water based foods and not recipes) to let yourself cleanse. Some people don't do well with sprouted grains at all and definitely not cooked ones. Thye can make some depressed and anxious (i know they did for me). If you are wanting more fats try avocado and olive oil maybe instead of nuts?

[veganman]

Maybe I missed it, but are you just starting out 100% raw? If you are you need to give your body time to heal. I think in your case it may be best to eat as simple as you can (Water based foods and not recipes) to let yourself cleanse. Some people don't do well with sprouted grains at all and definitely not cooked ones. Thye can make some depressed and anxious (i know they did for me). If you are wanting more fats try avocado and olive oil maybe instead of nuts?

I haven't eaten oils in 20 years, as I don't think they body needs that degree of refinement.

My concern right now is making sure I get enough calories. It seems like, although greens are the most important component of our diet, the calories are going to be in the fruits, nuts, grains, legumes, coconuts, and avocadoes. Legumes and grains are often viewed as transitional foods and not as health promoting as the other categories. However, the other categories are either high fat or high sugar. I am in a bit of a quandary as to the best course of action. That and I am not very hungry and am not eating more than 1000 - 1500 calories. I just don't want to eat too much high sugar (although natural) fruit or gain fat. I find when I eat more fat, I gain fat.

Thanks for letting me ramble...

[RawTruth]

That and I am not very hungry and am not eating more than 1000 - 1500 calories. I just don't want to eat too much high sugar (although natural) fruit or gain fat. I find when I eat more fat, I gain fat.I hate to beat a dead horse, but .... the most important question here is: are you saying you gain weight from eating fats when you're eating all raw? If it's when you're eating cooked, well ... eating all raw is a completely different animal than even eating 95% raw (Hmmmm ... I seem to be stuck in the animal kingdom tonight - horse, etc. -- aw, never mind ;)). I recall you saying you'd been raw for a while before. Alissa explains this really well -- when we begin eating raw, we need not count calories, look at food groups, carbs, etc.. In other words, we leave that old paradigm back in the cooked food world where it belongs. I know this is a biiiiiiig stretch for some of us. (My addition: this applies unless there is a SERIOUS health condition - life-threatening, or if one is morbidly obese.) Her discourse on it in her book ... and on this forum at various times in the past 1-1/2 years before she got so busy ... is very clear and simple. This is at the beginning -- which may be 3 months, 6 months, a year. It varies depending on each person. But!!! The most important factor in my students when they're not doing so well beginning raw is that they're not eating enough. If you could post what you're actually eating, you could get some very specific feedback. (Here or in a private email.) But -- the easiest is to get Alissa's book!

[veganman]

RawTruth -

thanks for your patience and sticking with me on this.

Yesterday -

AM - 2 apples, 1/2 cup dehydrated buckwheat sprouts (thanks to the suggestions on this forum - yummy!), 1 scoop raw Hemp protein

lunch - salad (lettuce, carrots, 2 cups lentil sprouts, 1 Tbsp ground flax)

Mid afternoon snack - 10 flax crackers

Dinner - 2 carrots, 1 celery stalk, 1 bunch broccoli, 3 bowls of salad (lettuce, bell pepper, @ 1/2 cup sunflower seeds)

Today -

AM - 2 apples, 1/2 cup soaked brown rice, 1 scoop raw Hemp

lunch - same

no snack (I find a snack sometimes causes me to have no appetite for dinner)

dinner - 3 carrots, 1 celery, large salad with avocado dressing.

Last weekend -

AM - smoothie (2 kiwis, 5 strawberries, 1 apple), Perfect Food, Hemp
Late AM - smoothie (2 bananas, bunch of kale, 1 apple, 3 celery)

Dinner - salad with 2 cups lentils

Dessert - 1/4 cup soaked almonds w/ 2 dried apricots and 2 cacao beans

Okay - that should give you an idea. I plan to get Alissa's book soon, I have just read so many (Gabriel Cousens, Rawsome, Raw Food Real World, The Complete Raw Book, to name just a few), that I wasn't sure if there was more it could tell me.