Stop saying that you need more protein.

[heabrook]

I've found several people on this thread (I'm not pointing a carrot at anyone, just something that I noticed) saying they had to include ___ in their diet because they need the protein.

I'm sure most of you know, the amount of protein that we are taught we need is a myth. In fact, it is -- in some ways -- more dangerous (or just as, at least) to have TOO much protein than it is to have too little.

Think about it, have you ever seen an animal in their natural habitat that is protein deficient? The way we are supposed to eat naturally (this being raw veggies, nuts, etc) will supply our bodies with enough protein.

I got this ALL of the time.. "oh dear.. she is too thin, I bet she's protein deficient.. especially since she's --theme from the movie Jaws-- VEGAN!!!"

I was checked about a year ago for protein deficiency (vegetarian all my life, vegan for little less than half) and I was not in any way protein deficient. I'm glad I was tested for it, because I've been able to tell people that when they asked "but.. vegan.. but.. WHERE do you get your protein?!?!?!"

That little voice inside your head is more than likely there because of what the media (and friends, family etc) has taught you that we need tons of protein! must have more now now now! aaaaa!!

I found a great article for anyone who wants to know more about the protein myth.. here is a great quote from it:

"To consume a diet that contains enough, but not too much, protein, simply replace animal products with grains, vegetables, legumes (peas, beans, and lentils), and fruits. As long as one is eating a variety of plant foods in sufficient quantity to maintain oneÂ’s weight, the body gets plenty of protein."

article:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/vsk/protein_myth.html

Now, IF you know (ie, by getting a test done that says with 100% accuracy that you are protein deficient) that you are in need of more protein, then ok. Otherwise, don't claim it. :)

Also, you can supplement your diet with some hemp seeds to boost your protein intake if you feel is necessary.

[Revvell]

Excellent point except as raw foodists, many of us don't eat much in the way of grains and legumes. I would add nuts and seeds to that as "replacements".

Revvell

[Ariannah]

Human breastmilk is 1% to 4 or 5% protein by calorie percentage.
Grown and weaned human beings do not need much more than that in their diet.

JMHO

[karenisraw]

Actually, greens and vegetables contain the amino acids that protein is broken down into before it can actually be used. Protein is not utilized by the body, it is the amino acids from the breakdown of protein that is utilized by the body. Plants and vegetables are already in amino acid form.

k

[heabrook]

Actually, greens and vegetables contain the amino acids that protein is broken down into before it can actually be used. Protein is not utilized by the body, it is the amino acids from the breakdown of protein that is utilized by the body. Plants and vegetables are already in amino acid form.

k

Exactly. Great explanation.. thank you for your input :)

[rawfigure]

Agree Agree :p !!

I was the queen of protein for many years but since 7 months raw vegetarian I have dramatically reduced my protein and do not even count the grams, after years of doing so, always accurate & planned at fitday.

So alas I half expecting to lose some muscle but NO ! I have not. So The Myth of needing so much protein, proven wrong in my book.

How do they check for protein ? I recently had a complete profile to include B-12 but he did not say anything about my protein. So is it a test you must request in addition to all the others ?

[heabrook]

How do they check for protein ? I recently had a complete profile to include B-12 but he did not say anything about my protein. So is it a test you must request in addition to all the others ?

It was a blood test. Maybe he did check for protein but didn't say anything, you might want to ask him. She was checking for other things too. She thought my blood sugar levels were too low as well... but of course, no. I was completely fine. She was a naturapath that wanted to prove that I should be eating animal protein. I was happy to prove her wrong.

[Crystl-jade]

That's a question that gets asked all the time. "Where do you get your protein?"

Explaining over and over again the value of raw foods, ect. is frustrating and can lead to poor health in and of it's self. It gets a little old IMO.

By looking at me anyone in their right mind would not think protein deficiency would be an issue. From that reasoning, it's just a question that needs no answer anymore.... just say, "don't worry, I'll be alright" and leave it at that.


Crystl-jade

[eatyourbroccoli]

touche

:cool:

[Revvell]

That's a question that gets asked all the time. "Where do you get your protein?"

Crystl-jade

Well, you can ask ~ As a person who eats a SAD including fast food, soda, etc., where do YOU get your nutrients? *shakes head* It's truly a wonder how the body works and we survive at all isn't it?

Revvell

[JennaBoBenna]

Well, you can ask ~ As a person who eats a SAD including fast food, soda, etc., where do YOU get your nutrients? *shakes head* It's truly a wonder how the body works and we survive at all isn't it?

Revvell


Ayyy-men!!!
my mother and father who eat a SAD diet, smoke and drink...worry about me eating raw!!

[heabrook]

Well, you can ask ~ As a person who eats a SAD including fast food, soda, etc., where do YOU get your nutrients? *shakes head* It's truly a wonder how the body works and we survive at all isn't it?

Revvell

Why do we get picked on? We are the ones who have a healthy lifesetyle. :( People who follow the SAD diet are the ones who need help. Honestly, how can some of them actually think that they ARE eating healthy?? :rolleyes:

[CorporalChicken]

I totally agree!

People are so quick to point fingers at a non-omnivore 'normal' human diet because 'it's not as healthy'.

... compared to what, exactly?

'Normal' is people buying processed meals. 'Normal' is people caking everything they eat in butter. 'Normal' is people eating animal flesh despite warnings from even doctors telling them it increases their risk of disease. 'Normal' is children being fed aspartame in sugar-free drinks.

'Normal' is full of bad!

[misslinda]

LOL.....THREAD TITLE OF THE YEAR AWARD !!!!!!!!!!


* chuckling * saving time and space.........Heabrook. We love you :)

[purtyflowrr]

Why do we get picked on? We are the ones who have a healthy lifesetyle. :( People who follow the SAD diet are the ones who need help. Honestly, how can some of them actually think that they ARE eating healthy?? :rolleyes:

Ah yes, this is something that drives me crazy as well. They pick on us because we are different and we intimidate them. They know we are more healthy and that puts great fear into them. They know, eventually, we are going to take over the world. Mwuhahahahahaha. Let them dribble in their fear. Or whatever the word is. I don't care anymore. Those people are annoying, and I don't give them my time anymore. Whenever anybody says anything about me being so unhealthy, I just say, "Yeah, I'm probably going to die. I guess we'll just have to wait and see."

[jujube]

I agree for the most part- protein isn't a problem, as long as someone is eating adequate calories from raw food. But if someone is eating too little food, then protein CAN be a problem... but that's something that can happen on any diet, not just raw.

I also want to point something out about the breast milk argument. I used to use this when people told me I wouldn't get enough protein- I'd say that babies only get 4% of their calories as protein, and they grow in leaps and bounds! But then a friend pointed out a problem with this argument: it's more accurate to look at protein consumed per pound of body weight, not as a percent of total calories, because it's body weight that determines calorie needs.

So if you look at a 10 lb infant, who needs about 800 calories a day, 4% of that is 32 calories from protein... which is 8 grams of protein.

So that infant is eat 8 grams of protein per 10 lb of body weight, which is 0.8 grams of protein per pound.

For a grown adult, who is 150 pounds let's say, this would be the equivalent of eating 120 grams of protein (0.8 x 150 = 120).

Now of course we're not growing, so we don't need that much :p But if you look at it this way, the breast milk argument doesn't work too well... because 4% of calories as protein actually comes out to be quite a bit, for a baby.

[Jamie]

I agree about all the previous posts on this thread about protein.......


BUT, this site is also to help and encourage newbies... one of the first questions they ask is about protein... So let's not put them down!! People come to this site because they want to be raw and they have questions and that is totally understandable.

So if you see a post that irritates you why not just ignore it instead of complaining!!

Jamie:)

[Tombi]

Hi Jamie!

I have to agree with you about complaining no one wants to read about complaining. :( However, there is an abundance of wisdom weaved within the complaints. And that wisdom is very beneficial to the newbees. What I got out of the thread was very simple. There is no real reason to overly concern yourself about how much protein you are obtaining because your nutrients are being meant by the virtue of eating raw. Even better if you are completely raw. Yet, there would obviously be problems if one were not to be eating enough raw food period. Here is where listening to the body and doing research on this board and reading Alissa's book becomes essential.

So newbees should read this post and see the passion of those who are raw and have been raw for sometime. They are serious about their Raw Lifestyle. The experience of those before us and those of us living and learning speaks loudly on this board in support of Alissa's teachings.

Let's all embrace this journey together...besides we are all headed in the same direction...optium health!!!!

[Conscious Midwife]

It was a blood test. Maybe he did check for protein but didn't say anything, you might want to ask him. She was checking for other things too. She thought my blood sugar levels were too low as well... but of course, no. I was completely fine. She was a naturapath that wanted to prove that I should be eating animal protein. I was happy to prove her wrong.


A Naturopath :eek:

Guess I'm all confused now?!?!?!?!

[Jamie]

Tombi,

With all due respect,, seriously,, I understand what you are saying!! And I agree.. BUT, I read some of the post and think wow,, I don't want to ask any questions!! I don't want to be attacked..I have been reading some other posts just today and think those poor people that are seeking advice or encouragement probably don't want to ask anymore!!

I have been on and off raw for a few years now and I know about protein and that we get enough.. But I am recently pregnant and even though I knew in my mind it was ok to be raw, I posted a question anyways. I needed the reassurance. I am so glad that everyone lovingly replied and didn't make me feel awful:)

I realize that this is off topic for this post,, sorry.

Jamie

[4Chunit1]

Great thread. What I find interesting is in bodybuilding circles, the amount of protein taken in by serious dudes (or dudetts) is crazy. Heck, I used to set my alarm for 4 AM, have a protein drink sitting there to slurp, drink it and fall back asleep. As I am now a believer in acid/alkaline or mucus forming/non-mucus forming foods, I think that the extra protein intake will work. However, I get the feeling that what we call muscle a lot of the time is no more than backed up acidic waste. I once heard that somebody should paint a picture of a health human being so that everyone could go and look at what they thought they were talking about. Blessings to all.

4chunit1

[Conscious Midwife]

I agree for the most part- protein isn't a problem, as long as someone is eating adequate calories from raw food. But if someone is eating too little food, then protein CAN be a problem... but that's something that can happen on any diet, not just raw.

I also want to point something out about the breast milk argument. I used to use this when people told me I wouldn't get enough protein- I'd say that babies only get 4% of their calories as protein, and they grow in leaps and bounds! But then a friend pointed out a problem with this argument: it's more accurate to look at protein consumed per pound of body weight, not as a percent of total calories, because it's body weight that determines calorie needs.

So if you look at a 10 lb infant, who needs about 800 calories a day, 4% of that is 32 calories from protein... which is 8 grams of protein.

So that infant is eat 8 grams of protein per 10 lb of body weight, which is 0.8 grams of protein per pound.

For a grown adult, who is 150 pounds let's say, this would be the equivalent of eating 120 grams of protein (0.8 x 150 = 120).

Now of course we're not growing, so we don't need that much :p But if you look at it this way, the breast milk argument doesn't work too well... because 4% of calories as protein actually comes out to be quite a bit, for a baby.


6-10% of total caloric intake being protein seems normal.

Take a 1800 calorie AHA diet , 180 calories from Protein would yield 45grams of protein daily. that's the equivalent of maybe two 6oz Turkey burgers.
4 High Protein SOy or Power bars.

Seems quite obtainable on a vegan diet and even raw if you include soy foods.

[Rawkinlocs]

Upon reading the threads that followed after the OP, I think there may be a misunderstanding as to WHOM those who've posted are referring to. I don't "think" (and I could be mistaken, but it's not how I read it) that this is at all about newbies coming on and asking "the protein question" but rather people in our everyday lives...SAD eaters who are always trying to argue with us that eating this way cannot and will not provide adequate protein for us.

I know the OP was mentioning seeing people say they are including things to get protein, but even the orignal post, IMHO, wasn't putting newbies down, but rather giving them hope that they don't have to be overly concerned with making sure they get "enough" (translated, the amount the RDA recommends) protein.

I also saw a post where it was said (paraphrasing), "this question gets asked all the time...it's getting old"...when I read that post in it's entirety, I read it in context with the posts that preceeded it and gathered that they were not making reference to newbies who come here and ask that question, but rather people we come in contact with in our daily lives when they find out the way in which we eat.

That's just my take on it...I didn't feel it was about newbies.

[Tombi]

Peace Jamie and congrats on the little one!!!!! :)

I am with ya! It's just the passion many have about rawness may sometimes come off as a little strong. No one on here should ever feel that they can not ask a question or make a comment. Trust me if the vibes get too crazy the mods will jump all over it in two minutes! :eek:

Even you know that all questions are answered and all problems are usually resolved here...right! After all this is the greatest raw food forum on the net!!! :cool:




Embrace a complete Raw Lifestyle...everybody!!! :D

[Jamie]

If I read the posts wrong the I appologize.


Sorry,
Jamie

[Crystl-jade]

Upon reading the threads that followed after the OP, I think there may be a misunderstanding as to WHOM those who've posted are referring to. I don't "think" (and I could be mistaken, but it's not how I read it) that this is at all about newbies coming on and asking "the protein question" but rather people in our everyday lives...SAD eaters who are always trying to argue with us that eating this way cannot and will not provide adequate protein for us.

I know the OP was mentioning seeing people say they are including things to get protein, but even the orignal post, IMHO, wasn't putting newbies down, but rather giving them hope that they don't have to be overly concerned with making sure they get "enough" (translated, the amount the RDA recommends) protein.

I also saw a post where it was said (paraphrasing), "this question gets asked all the time...it's getting old"...when I read that post in it's entirety, I read it in context with the posts that preceeded it and gathered that they were not making reference to newbies who come here and ask that question, but rather people we come in contact with in our daily lives when they find out the way in which we eat.

That's just my take on it...I didn't feel it was about newbies.




Exactly. Thanks!
It's mostly about my family(extended) and a few friends. No newbies were being referenced in the least. :)



Crystl-jade

[firefaery]

Just to clarify...breastmilk is a constantly changing live food. It changes not only from day to day, but from minute to minute. It can contain as little as 2 or as much as 8 percent protein. It isn't an accurate measurement, but one that can be used. At no other point in our lives do we require that much protein. You can absolutely get enough in a vegan diet without soy.

[Ariannah]

I also want to point something out about the breast milk argument. I used to use this when people told me I wouldn't get enough protein- I'd say that babies only get 4% of their calories as protein, and they grow in leaps and bounds! But then a friend pointed out a problem with this argument: it's more accurate to look at protein consumed per pound of body weight, not as a percent of total calories, because it's body weight that determines calorie needs.
Well, the breast milk argument does still fly with me. The 4% is the maximum content of breast milk. And if an adult were to go around saying they get 1-4% of their daily calories from protein, easily obtainable via a variety of aminos found in plant sources, people would be getting out the proverbial IV drip. These days "they" say 30-40% of calories should come from protein so yeah, I'll go for the breastmilk argument any old day.

This is not even mentioning that on random times of a typical raw day, I calculated (mere curiosity, not because I felt I needed to - I'm a geek that way) how much of carbs, fat, protein, blah blah blah I was getting, and it often turned out to be 5 - 10 percent. 10% protein is often recommended by some raw gurus.

So, I remain unchanged in the breastmilk analogy.

Respectfully,
Ariannah

[Jamie]

I just want to clarify what I"m trying to say.

IN the OP the first sentance says " I"ve found several people on this thread"......

To me that was talking about people posting on this site. I thought that was this web site was for was to ask questions... to be encouraged in the raw path. I see that sentance and think that if I read that, and was a newbie, I sure wouldn't want to ask questions about protein. Yes, there are many threads answering questions about protein that one could search.

Upon reading some other threads tonight, I see people posting that they are struggling with craving something, or asking other questions that obviously irritates another member. Instead of encouraging the original poster, the replies to me seem to be discouraging. Struggles are real to many of us and that is why we are here, to find encouragment.

So although I see that the OP was not necessarily meant for newbies, I can see how newbies might be leary of posting questions.

Lovinly,


Jamie

[rawpriestess]

I agree with Rawkinlocs, I read the posts, and I felt that they were not about the newbies asking questions, I think it's about people in general, relatives, co-workers, etc.

[Sunshine9]

I would disagree with the notion that we can just assume that fruits and vegetables provide every raw foodist with an adequate amount of protein. Every body is different, and I know for me personally I need more protein than is provided by just greens. I noticed that I stopped feeling hungry all the time once I added in a little bit of protein powder, spirulina, some seeds, and even more dark leafies. If I eat just sweet fruit & salad all day i would feel spacey and hungry.. I need to add in more density a few days a week.

According to Cousens there are two metabolic types-- a fast or slow oxidizer. Fast oxidizers need more protein and fat, and slow oxidizers need more carbs. He recommends getting protein beyond just greens. He certainly isn't advocating a high protein diet by any means, but rather he puts attention on the fact that it will be difficult for a fast oxidizer to be balanced and satisfied on a really high carb diet. I think it's an interesting idea... he talks about it in "Conscious Eating."

On a lighter note, I usually don't even answer the protein question anymore. I just say something like, "Have you ever heard of a vegetarian dying from too little protein? Yeah, I haven't either" That usually quiets most people...Or I'll say, "Oh wow everywhere, fruits, vegetables, greens, flax seeds, nuts, seeds, sea weed, protein powder, spirulina, algaes, some people do bee pollen, hemp protein powder." Haha can't really argue with that, can ya?

:)

[RawTruth]

My answer to Where do you get your protein? is:

-- the same place those big strong gorillas get theirs.

OR

-- the same place those cows (or steer) get theirs.

It quiets them right away, gets them thinking, and usually puts an interesting puzzled expression on their faces.

Raw food diet = raw fruits, veggies (majorly green leafies), seeds, and nuts = enough protein.

Be careful not to keep the cooked food/medical/nutritional/scientific/government RDA mindset when switched to raw and living foods. The body doesn't react the same.

Caveat: what I've said above applies to those who are eating completely raw.

Oh -- so that no one feels my previous sentence is putting them down, I want to point out that this is my "opinion" -- even though I'd also like to note that it's Alissa's (and other very very experienced raw folks') belief and the knowledge on which they base their practices.

[tglasco4]

Quick.....someone kill the Protien Myth!! :p

[onesmartcookie]

My answer to Where do you get your protein? is:

-- the same place those big strong gorillas get theirs.

OR

-- the same place those cows (or steer) get theirs.





Though I hear you on this one, I've always wondered about this because...we're obviously NOT gorillas or cows, and have different needs than them. I'm currently reading "Green for Life" by victoria Boutenko and she states that we share 99.4% of our genes with chimps...pretty remarkable. But, there are still some obvious major differences. I'm no human exceptionalist, but I guess this argument and retort doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If I were questioning a raw foodist and they answered by comparing themselves to other species...I'm not sure I would buy it. Hmmm.

Any thoughts?

[Evelynn]

This is probably the hardest part of veganism--dealing with the Protein Police.
I'm still in high school, and I have to suffer through the food pyramid explanations and "healthy eating guidelines" every single year, except this time around I more or less tuned it out. Just yesterday I told my friend that I hadn't taken a drug in over a year, and he said, "What about vitamins?" I said, "No." My Biology partner told me that I should, because I wasn't getting enough vitamins and minerals without meat...and then she brought up protein. Then another friend walked over at the end of class, sat down next to me, and went on this ballistic rant about calcium, since a spiral disc in the form of a nutrition seminar was waved in her face earlier that day. She had been told that dairy was essential to health. ESSENTIAL! This really, truly baffles me--can people not SEE what is wrong with that?

Honestly, do we go around TELLING people not to eat the way they do? I don't know about everyone else, but I'm attacked constantly! I've been called to the nurse and the guidance office several times. I've had to fill out an eating disorder survey, listen to the nurse's talk of soy products and the joys of dairy, and she even asked me to attend a "Survivor" seminar about nutrition (it was targeted at anorexics and bulimics). I know my friends are worried, but they're so conditioned that they refuse to hear my defense. That's all I ever do--I'm never on the offensive. Even my (conventional) doctor told me that veganism was probably healthier than SAD.

Another question. If you did happen to have a protein deficiency, wouldn't you crave foods with lots of protein, like nuts and seeds?

Sorry to give you my life story there. :rolleyes:
Evie

[firefaery]

I agree. I'm all for raw, but my stomach does not have multiple chambers. I don't really think I'm getting as much from the greens as the cows.

Also, there are many many many studies that show chimps aren't vegan and eat a substantial amount of insects and some even actively hunt meat. So I wouldn't be impressed by that either if I was askng where a raw VEGAN got their protein.

I think the best evidence is how well *I* am doing on this diet. I get plenty of protein even nursing AND pregnant. I always know if I'm low and just down some chia seeds or throw some nut butter on an apple or something. I don't feel animal products are necessary at all unless you have seriously major medical issues going on. A healthy person can thrive on raw veganism. How many SADers have you seen that look like they are thriving?

[Evelynn]

Not many, firefaery!

If they do bring up the cow/chimp argument, you could always ask if they get the same amount of protein from meat as a wolf or a bear would...

[firefaery]

Not many what? SADers?

Clearly they aren't getting as much as an animal who is primarily a carnivore. Animals like cows and chimps are primarily herbivores-PRIMARILY. They still eat insects and for the sake of arguement some meat. Granted the studies also say that after masticating the meat they tend to discard it after extracting juices, but the facts are the facts. I agree with raw veganism. I'm just saying that the above stated arguement doesn't hold much water for me. I personally rely on species-specific studies, of which there are many. You can absolutely get enough protein. If I were meeting opposition I'd want to have the most convincing info I could, and IMO that's not it. That's all. I don't want an arguement that can have holes poked in it easily. You aren't going to win with your nurse or psychologist or whatever citing studies based on other animals when they aren't raw vegans. For me the best defense is the most relevant one.

[Evelynn]

Not many what? SADers?

Right. ^___^

I don't personally use that argument. I usually just nod and act like I'm seeing the error of my ways when I'm dealing with the nurses, but when I DO have to defend myself against friends, I tell them that people who do it right are fine, and I'm trying hard to listen to my body. I don't push it, because no one will win. Maybe someday they'll just come out and tell everybody the truth. Unlikely, but it's a nice thought.

[stRAWberry fields forever]

Firefaery,

I appreciate the logic you offer about not relying on using the habits of other species to justify our diets. You make reference to species-specific studies, (along with your own personal successes) as the basis for your case that raw veganism does not lead to protein deficiency. If you get a chance, could you elaborate on your argument, like how you know you personally are getting enough protein, or with links to / more info on the specific studies you are speaking of? I want to have as much knowledge about this subject as I can get to help stave off any protein police I cross paths with in the future.

[Evelynn]

Oooh, that would be nice. It would be great to have something really solid to stand on--I try to avoid arguments like the plague, but sometimes I just get sucked into them and I can never cite my sources.
And how do you know when you're NOT getting enough? I asked this earlier, but is it as simple as craving something?

[jorjeni]

My answer to Where do you get your protein? is:

-- the same place those big strong gorillas get theirs.

OR

-- the same place those cows (or steer) get theirs.

It quiets them right away, gets them thinking, and usually puts an interesting puzzled expression on their faces.

Raw food diet = raw fruits, veggies (majorly green leafies), seeds, and nuts = enough protein.

Be careful not to keep the cooked food/medical/nutritional/scientific/government RDA mindset when switched to raw and living foods. The body doesn't react the same.




Yes I have to remember that also. It was listening to one of my friends trying to tell me I am eating to many nuts that got me to taking them out of my diet even thought I knew I was eating RAW nuts but I sometimes forget RAW is not the same as cooked or roasted. I am now back to my senses :p . The thing I am trying to remember is all the research that has been done is for COOKED FOOD not raw. So if you are eating Cooked than yes you will need 30% or more but if you are eating RAW then you will need only 1/4 or less than that. Remember that ROSEANN show when they had DJ and a shrink and all he could say was "They say she's the same but she's not the same" over and over and over again about the changing Becky's LOL!!! anyway I keep thinking about that. "They think cooked protein is the same as Raw protein but there not the same" LOL!!! Stupid I know but I am doing it with everything Nuts, sweets everything.

[firefaery]

Absolutely! I'm running out now (already late-as usual) so I'll post this afternoon when I get back.

[stRAWberry fields forever]

Bump bump bump

[RawTruth]

Hey Folks!!

I was just sharing what I say -- and a bunch of my raw friends use it, too. Heck, Juliano used it when Path301's friend asked HIM (Juliano) the protein question (!!!!) a couple of days ago when good ole' Path was out here visiting.

It's light, it's funny, it's hopefuly thought-provoking, and it's not the only answer I ever give; it's just one in my repertoire.

It was commenting on the original post.

Don't use it if you don't want to ... or if you don't believe it's relevant.

It SURE wasn't intended to compare our stomachs to a cow's ... nor to say that we can reasonably mimic a gorilla's diet; it was illustrative of one of the main and most effective places raw vegans can get usable protein.

I wasn't trying to open up a discussion about it.

[rawfigure]

My answer to Where do you get your protein? is:

-- the same place those big strong gorillas get theirs.

OR

-- the same place those cows (or steer) get theirs.

It quiets them right away, gets them thinking, and usually puts an interesting puzzled expression on their faces.

Raw food diet = raw fruits, veggies (majorly green leafies), seeds, and nuts = enough protein.

Be careful not to keep the cooked food/medical/nutritional/scientific/government RDA mindset when switched to raw and living foods. The body doesn't react the same.

Caveat: what I've said above applies to those who are eating completely raw.

Oh -- so that no one feels my previous sentence is putting them down, I want to point out that this is my "opinion" -- even though I'd also like to note that it's Alissa's (and other very very experienced raw folks') belief and the knowledge on which they base their practices.


Uh huh, yes, so true...

[firefaery]

Okay, I'm exhausted and just got a couple of links together and my stupid computer froze and I lost them. I'm pretty cranky. I will get them together again in the morning. You may have seen alot of them anyhow.

As for me...My protein needs are probably high up there as far as this discussion goes. I am very active, and as I said, nursing and pregnant. My body is supporting three people! THat said I am more alert and active than I ever was as a cooked vegan. My milk supply has increased and I feel great. I know there are blood tests available, but I haven't taken them. I have, however, peed on strips for my MW and am not showing signs of protein deficiency. Yeah me!

RT~I didn't feel that you were trying to open up a discussion, it's just one of the more interesting points to me (coming from the health field) I'm sure you have lots of great info that you would be happy to share. It just bothers me at raw functions or whatever when people use information that isn't all that credible or even true to support the raw food stance (or any other one for that matter!) Just harmlessly playing devil's advocate. Sorry if it irritated you. I love your posts!

[RawTruth]

I love your posts!Cool ... I think you're great, too. Awww ... it's a love fest!! Hugs all around -- see, no more cranky you now!!

[Ariannah]

If I eat just sweet fruit & salad all day i would feel spacey and hungry.. I need to add in more density a few days a week.


Oops forgot to clarify that my definition of "fruit" is broader than the default. Most people when thinking of the word fruit naturally think of sweet fruit.

Fruit for me encompasses a wide spectrum of things, like cucumbers, avocados, bell peppers (which technically are "fruits"), and often nuts and seeds. I often talk about "fruits and greens" forgetting that people may hear in their minds "sweet fruit and salads".

Regards,
Ariannah

[heabrook]

Thanks guys for all your input.

Just to clarify... this thread was not about targeting newbies in any way. It was simply intended to be an informational thread for anyone who was confused about the protein requirements. It is a common misunderstanding among people that we need more protein than we actually do. I was not complaining, rather just trying to help by giving some information to anyone who desired to read it.

Best,
heather

[stRAWberry fields forever]

rawandnatural,

You said:

"Fruit for me encompasses a wide spectrum of things, like cucumbers, avocados, bell peppers (which technically are "fruits"), and often nuts and seeds."

I had been wondering about how those "vegetables" which are technically fruits, especially the sweeter types such as peppers and tomatoes, combine. Can they correctly be combined as fresh fruits. To clarify, what I'm asking is if according to basic food combining principles, eating a bell pepper at the same time as an apple (for example) causes digestive problems.

Thanks for any info. you can offer!

[PATH301]

Thanks for that link you gave:

I found a great article for anyone who wants to know more about the protein myth.. here is a great quote from it:

"To consume a diet that contains enough, but not too much, protein, simply replace animal products with grains, vegetables, legumes (peas, beans, and lentils), and fruits. As long as one is eating a variety of plant foods in sufficient quantity to maintain oneÂ’s weight, the body gets plenty of protein."

article:
"http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/vsk/protein_myth.html"

I like collecting these places about the whole protein thing as fuel for my fire. Everytime I get the whole protein concern. Yo and trust me I get it alot along with a lot of other people too.

As RAWTRUTH SAID IT HERE:

My answer to Where do you get your protein? is:

-- the same place those big strong gorillas get theirs.

OR

-- the same place those cows (or steer) get theirs.

It quiets them right away, gets them thinking, and usually puts an interesting puzzled expression on their faces.

Raw food diet = raw fruits, veggies (majorly green leafies), seeds, and nuts = enough protein.

AND JUST LIKE WHAT SHE SAID HERE:

I was just sharing what I say -- and a bunch of my raw friends use it, too. Heck, Juliano used it when Path301's friend asked HIM (Juliano) the protein question (!!!!) a couple of days ago when good ole' Path was out here visiting.

It's light, it's funny, it's hopefuly thought-provoking, and it's not the only answer I ever give; it's just one in my repertoire.

I like this response it makes you think for a moment.

[tglasco4]

I have gained 10lbs in the last 10 weeks of weight training. A good friend who knows I am raw asked me, "Are you working out? You're getting bigger".....He knows enough by now not to even ask the "protein" question. I plan on continuing with bodybuilding to help put the protein myth to death.

Peace.

[heabrook]

I have gained 10lbs in the last 10 weeks of weight training. A good friend who knows I am raw asked me, "Are you working out? You're getting bigger".....He knows enough by now not to even ask the "protein" question. I plan on continuing with bodybuilding to help put the protein myth to death.

Peace.

That's great. We set an example for those less informed. :)

best,
heather

[rawfigure]

I have gained 10lbs in the last 10 weeks of weight training. A good friend who knows I am raw asked me, "Are you working out? You're getting bigger".....He knows enough by now not to even ask the "protein" question. I plan on continuing with bodybuilding to help put the protein myth to death.

Peace.

GOOD FOR YOU TODD !! 10 in 10 ?!! my hero !!!!!!!!!!! :D

Yes ! to what you say !! I am raw for 7 months, I continued to train, but less days due to fact I am now that i am "retired" from Competition, and I bumped my cardio to slim down some, thinking I may drop muscle doing this...and reducing protein intake DRASTICALLY..but who'd counting :p ;) and SURPRISE no I have not lost muscle in the last seven months.

So that tells me if I decided to get back on the stage and bumped the weight training I could compete as a Raw Vegan.

I am going to adopt the I get my protein from the same place cows do. I told my husband (he is a cow eater..) and he laughed and said, now that is a thought to ponder about !!

[Lunar*Fey]

Ahh if only my doctor could hear you guys talk! She keeps telling me I can't eat this way because it's not normal and would be bad for me. I understand that she sees it as my eating disorder but it's actually what has freed me from disordered eating thoughts. honestly. I am trying to prove this to her and gain back my health...but unfortunately I won't get that chance as I've said many times I have to go to NY Prebytarian. Sorry I keep saying this it's just really killing me. Anyway, thanks for all the good information on protein...I love reading all of your opinions and I respect all of them. :)

[LightLover]

- Hi, somepeople I know are following a "SAD" diet, and I want to explain
to them that the key factor in diet is eating healthy

- If you don't feel healthy, your body will not feel ok, and the diet will fail

- Because people have only attention for a few arguments, I want to bring up the protein myth as main argument against "sad-diets"
This really needs to be a convincing story

- Has anyone a link to a text with has gathered the most arguments in favor of the protein myth?

( like: babymilk has only 4% protein; raw vegan food has aminoacids immediatly ready for the body, while animal protein first needs to be broken
into aminoacids etc...)
Till now I didn't find a place with complete info

- Maybe we could make a thread: Protein information for ""sad-diet-followers"

Anyone can use this to inform all people following atkins diet etc...

[mcasburn]

A few days back, one of my co-workers asked me the dreaded protein question. I said, "Raw spinach and broccoli have more protein per 100 calories than beef." And she looked at me with SCORN, and said "No, they don't!" in a disgusted voice. Well, she's miseducated and incorrect, but what's a person to do? I recommended she read about it, and then let it drop.

Here you go... protein grams per 100 calories of a wide variety of foods. It's VERY eye-opening: http://www.soystache.com/protein.htm

At the bottom: raw apples
At the top: raw spirulina

[LightLover]

Great website :D

Didn't know that sundried tomato's are so nutritious (14% protein and much minerals, calcium, iron....) One of my favorite foods.

Any more links welcome. :)
I think at least 95% of the people are unknown with all this info. :eek:

[rawbeliever]

"Yeah, I'm probably going to die. I guess we'll just have to wait and see."

LOL! that's hilarious. Can I use that, or is it copyrighted?
:)

[Spectatrix]

Plants and vegetables are already in amino acid form.

k
Incorrect. The amino acids in plants are still bound up in proteins and have to be broken down by the body.

[LightLover]

My feeling says you are right. :D
But I also somtetimes read the opposite :mad:

Can someone help us with this, we need to inform correctly :cool:

[rawbeliever]

I've been called to the nurse and the guidance office several times. I've had to fill out an eating disorder survey, listen to the nurse's talk of soy products and the joys of dairy, and she even asked me to attend a "Survivor" seminar about nutrition (it was targeted at anorexics and bulimics). I know my friends are worried, but they're so conditioned that they refuse to hear my defense.

Whoah, Evie, that's really scary. Consider yourself a dangerous revolutionary. You've got 'em on the run. Have you ever read "The China Study?" It was written by a tenured professor at Cornell, and one of the things he talks about is how the committee of scientists who put together the food pyramid were sued by a group called Physicians for Responsible Medicine because six of the eleven scientists (including the chair) all had financial ties to the dairy & meat industries. There are required by law to disclose this kind of information, but refused to do so. The Physicians won their case.

[GreenPrince]

This may be of value for the eternal protein debate.

About 20% of our daily proteins we get from dead intestine bacteria!

We have 2-3 lbs of beneficial bacteria living in our intestine. There are many billions of them and several houndred different types.
Our knowledge about them is almost zero.

These bacteria live in symbios and harmony with us. We feed them with our food, and they help us to brake the food down,
produce beneficial substanses, rebuilt amino acids and new proteins, and finally, when they die, they function as a protein buffer
for essential amino acids. We don't need all types of amino acids every day.

We choice the bacteria types we invite to the party, because all ”tribes” are specialized on different kinds of food.
Raw vegan food creates other dominating bacteria than SAD. Healthy bacteria – healthy people.

I like to think, that it's not impossible that ”our bacteria” produces vital substances unknown to science.
Or known substances in higher amounts, like B-12.

My bacteria are raw vegan foodists ;) How about yours?

[lissomllama]

To those who were wondering: It sounded to me that rawtruth was saying that we get our protein from the same sources as gorillas and cows, not that we are gorillas or cows. Her exact words were "The same place as those big gorillas" etc. However, I do agree with what firefaery wrote.

In regards to the other argument on this thread. I don't believe that many people on this site are being rude or off putting to the new people, I think that many of us are just a little tired of repeating the same thing over and over because not many people take advantage of the search function. This is no crime of course, and we still answer the questions honestly but sometimes we might have a hint of shortness. We're only human. Most of us here love to help the new peoples but it does take a little work on others' behalf as well. There are alot of people who come here and automatically ask questions that have been answered in threads right below that one. This all comes from curiosity and thirst for knowlege which is great but alot of us have crafted wonderful posts that eloquently answer these questions and when the same questions pop up a day later, we want to help, but we want them to read the last post that really answered the question well instead of trying to rephrase it the same each time. Each time that happens, the answers get lazier and less well formed and people lose patience. This is a natural part of being human. We can't all be teachers 100% of the time. Personally, I try to use the search function for everything before I ask questions. By doing this, I usually get a quick answer and find other posts that interest me that I never thought of. It also allows me to resurrect old posts and continue them. Of course, if the search gives me no results I can use or doesn't answer my question fully, I don't hesitate to ask. I'm not saying that everyone should do this, or else we wouldn't have many new threads, but it certainly helps with the patience issue. So, to the newbies, please don't take it personally when we sound a little short. We're mostly just tired of hearing it all from the cooked SAD people and it spills over in here. Keep asking questions, but search as well. Read read read.

A quick note on protein: I believe that dark leafy greens are one of the best sources of amino acids.

[dreamrawalwz]

To those who were wondering: It sounded to me that rawtruth was saying that we get our protein from the same sources as gorillas and cows, not that we are gorillas or cows. Her exact words were "The same place as those big gorillas" etc. However, I do agree with what firefaery wrote.

In regards to the other argument on this thread. I don't believe that many people on this site are being rude or off putting to the new people, I think that many of us are just a little tired of repeating the same thing over and over because not many people take advantage of the search function. This is no crime of course, and we still answer the questions honestly but sometimes we might have a hint of shortness. We're only human. Most of us here love to help the new peoples but it does take a little work on others' behalf as well. There are alot of people who come here and automatically ask questions that have been answered in threads right below that one. This all comes from curiosity and thirst for knowlege which is great but alot of us have crafted wonderful posts that eloquently answer these questions and when the same questions pop up a day later, we want to help, but we want them to read the last post that really answered the question well instead of trying to rephrase it the same each time. Each time that happens, the answers get lazier and less well formed and people lose patience. This is a natural part of being human. We can't all be teachers 100% of the time. Personally, I try to use the search function for everything before I ask questions. By doing this, I usually get a quick answer and find other posts that interest me that I never thought of. It also allows me to resurrect old posts and continue them. Of course, if the search gives me no results I can use or doesn't answer my question fully, I don't hesitate to ask. I'm not saying that everyone should do this, or else we wouldn't have many new threads, but it certainly helps with the patience issue. So, to the newbies, please don't take it personally when we sound a little short. We're mostly just tired of hearing it all from the cooked SAD people and it spills over in here. Keep asking questions, but search as well. Read read read.

A quick note on protein: I believe that dark leafy greens are one of the best sources of amino acids.

I agree with you completely. You also must remember that online you don't hear the other persons tone so you can be quick to judge, usually on the defense.

[raintree]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but this is a good artical on protein by Victoria Boutenko: http://www.rawfamily.com/proteinsingreens2006.pdf

Maybe we could have a few protein sticky threads, one of them being just for quick answers to the "where do you get your protein from?" question :rolleyes:

[raintree]

PS. I think the title of this post rocks :D

[LightLover]

To those who were wondering: It sounded to me that rawtruth was saying that we get our protein from the same sources as gorillas and cows, not that we are gorillas or cows. Her exact words were "The same place as those big gorillas" etc. However, I do agree with what firefaery wrote.

In regards to the other argument on this thread. I don't believe that many people on this site are being rude or off putting to the new people, I think that many of us are just a little tired of repeating the same thing over and over because not many people take advantage of the search function. This is no crime of course, and we still answer the questions honestly but sometimes we might have a hint of shortness. We're only human. Most of us here love to help the new peoples but it does take a little work on others' behalf as well. There are alot of people who come here and automatically ask questions that have been answered in threads right below that one. This all comes from curiosity and thirst for knowlege which is great but alot of us have crafted wonderful posts that eloquently answer these questions and when the same questions pop up a day later, we want to help, but we want them to read the last post that really answered the question well instead of trying to rephrase it the same each time. Each time that happens, the answers get lazier and less well formed and people lose patience. This is a natural part of being human. We can't all be teachers 100% of the time. Personally, I try to use the search function for everything before I ask questions. By doing this, I usually get a quick answer and find other posts that interest me that I never thought of. It also allows me to resurrect old posts and continue them. Of course, if the search gives me no results I can use or doesn't answer my question fully, I don't hesitate to ask. I'm not saying that everyone should do this, or else we wouldn't have many new threads, but it certainly helps with the patience issue. So, to the newbies, please don't take it personally when we sound a little short. We're mostly just tired of hearing it all from the cooked SAD people and it spills over in here. Keep asking questions, but search as well. Read read read.

A quick note on protein: I believe that dark leafy greens are one of the best sources of amino acids.


Maybe it is an idea whenever new members are filling in their username & password for the first time, to ask them kindly to use the searchfunction before asking/starting a new thread? :p

[Lay-Lay]

I was at a business meeting this morning which served breakfast. They had a bowl full of fresh fruit, so I was very happy as you can imagine. I skipped over all the cooked stuff and headed right for the fruit. Anyways, I got back to my table and began eating my fruit and a woman proceeds to tell me that I needed to go back to the bar and get me some protein. I just smiled and said oh I get my protein and plenty of it, but I don't eat eggs or meat. She just just said ok and that was that.

[Lay-Lay]

Upon reading the threads that followed after the OP, I think there may be a misunderstanding as to WHOM those who've posted are referring to. I don't "think" (and I could be mistaken, but it's not how I read it) that this is at all about newbies coming on and asking "the protein question" but rather people in our everyday lives...SAD eaters who are always trying to argue with us that eating this way cannot and will not provide adequate protein for us.

I know the OP was mentioning seeing people say they are including things to get protein, but even the orignal post, IMHO, wasn't putting newbies down, but rather giving them hope that they don't have to be overly concerned with making sure they get "enough" (translated, the amount the RDA recommends) protein.

I also saw a post where it was said (paraphrasing), "this question gets asked all the time...it's getting old"...when I read that post in it's entirety, I read it in context with the posts that preceeded it and gathered that they were not making reference to newbies who come here and ask that question, but rather people we come in contact with in our daily lives when they find out the way in which we eat.

That's just my take on it...I didn't feel it was about newbies.

yeah, I thought she were talking about family, friends, coworkers too.