Please Help Me....I am concerned about calories

[JourneyToRaw]

Here it is...

First here are my stats
Female 26 years old (mother of three boys :) )
5'9"
medium build
143 lbs

I began my raw journey on October 1st...started with a 17 day juice fast...lost 30 pounds during that time...have been attempting to stay 100% raw ever since...most days are good...some days I have had the chicken on my salad or something cooked...through the holiday season ate a few cookies and candies....I have been the same weight for about a month now...have recently joined a gym and have been working out 4-6 days a week for the past three weeks...just this week I began a real intense workout...weights and running...workouts about an hour each session...

Question...I have been logging my food taken in at FITDAY.COM....I am only averaging about 645 calories a day.....I don't want to eat any more...I don't feel hungry...I am worried....I feel that I should be eating 2x that (around 1200 or so) I would really like to lose another 10 - 15 lbs or so.l......I just feel stuck....I am beginning to think my metabolism is TOOOO slow...I don't know though

PLEASE HELP>>>>>> HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO CALCULATE CALORIES.....i HAVE BEEN AVERAGING 65% CARBS 25-30% FATS AND 5-10% PROTIEN (ACCORDING TO FITDAY)

I appreciate any advice good or bad....I am struggling to not feel a little discouraged with my "stagnant body"

God Bless,
Sarah

[khackett]

Your body may be going into starvation mode. STrike that, it probably is.

ADD NUTS. Lots of nuts. Go nuts with the nuts. :)

They'll bump that calorie intake like crazy. Nuts, beans, that sort of stuff. If you need to, cook some things maybe once a week (the bean sort of stuff). It won't kill you. I know the goal here is RAW, but ... well, you can't be eating that little and genuinely survive.

That said, fitday isn't God. Do add a few higher cal items into your diet, but take fitday with a grain of salt.

[JourneyToRaw]

Kate...thanks...I have been thinking about nuts...Nuts FREAK me out because of their high calorie and fat content though...but I feel you are right....

[Rawkinlocs]

How can she be going into starvation mode? I thought starvation mode is when one's body is receiving absolutely no nutrients and has used up it's reserves within the fat and muscle.

Journeytoraw, what is your current diet like? I mean give an example of what it is you eat in a given day and how much (amount of the actual food please, not caloric numbers). More important, how do you FEEL with your current diet...eating the amount of food you are eating? Is your main concern that you are maintaining your weight and it's not coming down?

[khackett]

Nuts freak me out too. :P I tend to go at them.

As for starvation mode, you can be getting some nutrients and still have your body shut down. It just thinks that it isn't getting enough, so it essentially eats itself while trying to keep whatever it can. It's not NOTHING, there is a point where you can still eat but not be getting enough calories. Sorry if this doesn't make sense... I suggest you google anorexia, starvation mode, and things of that nature.

It's not just about feel either. You can FEEL fine, but really? you're not getting enough. I know that may not be what you want or expect to hear, but it's totally true. You've tricked your body into thinking you are eating enough food for it, but you can't be. Not on that low cal diet. You should be eating over 1000 calories a day.

[JourneyToRaw]

YES...my MAIN concern is that I am maintaining my weight and it is not coming down...I have heard the cliches..that you have to eat more to lose weight...that when you start a heavy workout routine you gain muscle which weighs more than fat....I don't know what to believe because I have never felt better since going raw....

Here is what a typical day consists of...

I don't eat before my workout...just water during

When I get home...I usually have a cup of black tea with soy milk in it and then I will have a strawberry banana smoothie, pinapple, or apples...just depending on the mood

mid morning I will have more apples....cucumbers tomatoes...or other fruit of choice

lunch....a big spinach salad or smoothie again...just depends on the mood (sometimes I want more greens than fruit or vice versa)

snack...more fruit
tea with soy milk
or a nut butter (not every day)

dinner.....don't usually eat much of a dinner...snack on fruit...have more tea, etc....

There have been the days when I have not been 100% raw...like I said...I have gone out to eat and had the chicken on the salad...or the cooked vegetables...and during christmas the cookies (but not too bad)....not enough to gain but a few pounds of water weight that went away within a few days...or I would juice fast a couple of days after that....

I HAVE DEFINITELY BEEN ABLE TO MAINTAIN 143 lbs....BUT I DON"T WANT TO DO THAT....I FEEL THAT I COULD STILL LOSE...I DON'T WANT TO BE MODEL THIN...BUT I STILL HAVE TOO MUCH BUTT BELLY AND THIGHS....

[khackett]

Honestly. Add nuts. It'll bump you up quite a bit. Don't have salted (dur), the salt will suck water and make you bloat.

[Rawkinlocs]

Interesting. So...a person has to eat and eat and eat in order to maintain some (obviously mainstream) ideal of how many calories are needed daily? Wow, wonder what our ancestors did before the concept of a calorie ever came about via the medical industry? :confused: Oh well, to each his/her own. I guess those who simply just don't need to eat much daily...those who fast, etc. are just up **** creek.

[khackett]

Okay, look, I didn't come here to get into things like this with people. Take what I said, research it, or don't. I'm just trying to help.

EDITED TO ADD: This is the internet, I can't tell if you're being sardonic or not; if not, I apologise.

[Rawkinlocs]

What things? No one here is trying to start an arguement with you Kate. You have your ideals about counting calories and I have mine about NOT counting them. My whole thing is, eating raw isn't supposed to have to be complicated...it's about simplicity. There are SO many women and men who have gone from eating the SAD (standard american diet) who fought and fought to lose weight, counting calories, counting fat grams, watching this and that. Then, they learn about eating raw and end up losing their weight, overcoming major health issues, and just feeling great about themselves.

It's like a freedom. And no, I wasn't being sardonic, I was being dead serious in my statement.

[khackett]

Right then. I've said my two cents in this thread for JourneytoRaw.

[JourneyToRaw]

AMOUNTS:

Fruit: 2-5 apples a day
1-3 bananas a day
1-3 cups of strawberries/pineapple

soy milk: not every day but upwards of 8 oz most days

nut butters: 1-2 tablespoons

greens 2-4 cups

black tea: 16 oz...every day

[JourneyToRaw]

I do feel great about what I am eating....I would just like to lose the rest of the fat...that may simply just take time...I am just new to raw and it is A WHOLE LIFE CHANGE IN MIND BODY AND SPIRIT>.....it is freeing but there is still the battle with what "everyone" tells you is right

[glad_2beme]

Hi Journey to Raw, welcome to the board...its been my experience in life to learn from those who are already experienced in what I want to learn about. With that being said, go read yani's journal, she is new here, but has been raw for a while, look at her results, and our moderators are here and experienced Rawkinlocs, Smasty, etc.....I will re-cap Yani - she just did it. Most of us do not count calories, grams, etc....you get all of that on diets in the SAD world. Eat all you want of raw, enjoy it, and see progress to where you are going - emotionally, physically, just do what feels good.

[Joopie]

Hey, Journey!

One thing that might be happening is that your body is healing itself- weight tends to stay at a certain level when repairs are going on and then there can either be a shift up or down. I wonder if another juice fast or Master Cleanse fast would help maybe get you stabilized?

I know that I lose a lot more when I am eating consistently (small meals through out the day) and drinking a lot of water... maybe just for a week add a little more of everything to your diet (you can get nuts through some good dressings if you don't just want to eat them), eat smaller meals more often, and see how you feel. Maybe you will have more energy that you didn't know you were missing, maybe not... but it might help especially if you are doing hard workouts. If you are concerned, you might want to do some research on ketosis just to see if you recognize any symptoms or problems.

A while ago I wasn't eating much and I thought I felt fine... I was in starvation mode. (I wasn't even eating as much as you are.) Adding more food, water, and smaller meals made me feel a lot better, even though I didn't think I felt bad in the first place. I was just in the habit of not eating because I was really busy. It might be worth checking out.

I do agree with Yani's approach... just do it and don't be so concerned about what you are eating- but you obviously are worried right now so it might be something you should look into a little bit, if only to ease your mind. It isn't important at all to count calories. That might be hard to get used to, but that is a really cool freedom with eating this way. Some people watch their fat intake and some like more fruit... it's such an individual thing. Give yourself lots of time and patience and you will know what to do! We all need to be patient when transitioning- and it usually takes longer than we want it to. Sometimes our brains have to catch up to our bodies. If you have been doing something for a long time (counting calories or worrying about what you eat) it might take a little while to let that go... but once you realize the freedoms you DO have, you will let go in a hurry.

If you have been raw or fasting for a while, remember that you won't eat nearly as much food as you used to.

That's all I can think of- let us know what you think!

Julie

[misslinda]

Hey journeyto raw,

from my own experience, prior to becoming raw, a few months ago, i eliminated soy products like soy milk, soy protein bars b/c I realized even if I was eating healthy (during that time 70% raw and 30% soy & "health food" stuff") I lost my period for 6 months. I then discovered Dr John Lee who is a renowned expert on Women's hormones for 30 years (died unfortunately) linked environmental, commerical foods and especially the soy craze to hormone issues, weight, moods, etc. I eliminted the soy and within 2 months, regained my mense.

You may want to try as Julie mentioned....a deeper cleaning. I wish I had known this over a year ago b/c when waw healthy and running 10 miles a day, I was eating like I mentioned above lost the weight and gained it back even though iwas eating the same and running for miles. I have been focusing on cleansing to revamp my organs.

If you want my personal opinion, by your food list, you eat alot of fruit which is fine but maybe try and alter andhave the leafy greens in the morning? Are you the type of person, like me, likes to have the same routine everyday? Are you eating organic fruits and veggies? BM"S everyday? Water intake? Sleeping well? I'm big on leafy green b/c they cleanse and revitalize the organs. it's gonna be difficult, but try not to focus on calories but rather than how your body feels--for example, i can literally know when my body wants an apple or a salad. Oh boy, intuition plays a big role!!!!! :eek: Join ius in a juice fast if you would like.


getting back on track,
linda

[JourneyToRaw]

I am all for a juice fast....is it ok to juice fast when I am working out so hard....I tried a juice fast for a few days and I felt a lot more tired with my workouts....I am the type that has the same routine every day....I think you are right linda about the leafy greens....I will eliminate soy...do you eat nuts?

[JourneyToRaw]

Thanks for all the great responses...I know that I need to let go of counting calories...but like my name Journey To Raw...it is a journey...sometimes easy and sometimes hard (mentally more than anything)

God Bless,
Sarah

[askcassyfirst]

Just thought I would add something:

The times I have lost weight when raw were times when I ate quite a bit, and often. Pretty much 6 or so small meals/snacks a day. Originally when I first started this program in 2003 I went from 155! arg! to 124 over the course of about 4 months. ( it may have been quicker, but I only weighed myself at the end of that time due to curiosity...I didn't have my own scale at the time, so I couldn't compare myself as I went along.)

I can say that I ate about 2 1/2 times the quanity what your post said, too. Volume wise, not so much calories..calories might not be the best thing to look at. It wasn't for me! At the time I ate LOTS of mature coconuts. I would crack them open and carve out the yummy stuff inside. Since I was losing so quickly it was pretty mind boggling, yet I never thought, wow, i am eating too much...

You might consider that you feel full due to the quanity of fiber in what you are consuming. Many dieters will eat fiber for just that reason, it satiates.

Cassy :)

[JourneyToRaw]

Thanks Cassy...how tall are you by the way? I am seriously thinking about letting go altogether...throwing out the scale and not logging my food....I think mentally I need that release....

[askcassyfirst]

For the record, I am just shy of 5'6" (by less than a half inch.) :)

Cassy

[misslinda]

Hey journeytoraw,

I was thinking about you and here's what was on my mind.......

it might be a good idea to take as step back and understand your health before raw,during raw and now..........

To give you an example, personally, I have alot of "repair" work on my body's mechanics for reasons from years and years battling ED's to being on medications. I also take into account the emotional mental physical stress that has effected me on the cellular level. Repair on your body's efficiency can become frustrating---as we are women and use to viewing weightloss from a calorie deficeit point of view. It has come to the point that I need to allow my body to REST and catch up to its optimal health--which involves cleansing, digesting, burning excess fat etc.

Anyway, I 'd imagine the mother of three, it can be pretty hectic. the routine change will be difficult as I am that way too. But as a suggestion, maybe lay off the black tea and replace it with water. Are you drinking water? try leafy greens in morning and fruits in the afternoon. Just by the way you describe yourself, your body remind me of me---TUNE UP TIME!

feel free to PM me if you would like,
linda :p

[Olive]

I say go for the freedom! Counting calories will bring you nothing but obsession and worrying, imo. I also agree that upping your food intake might help things. Whole fats (nuts, avocados, coconuts) are important to the body for good functioning, especially the brain, so I think it's good to have at least a little everyday. I'm of the mind that if we don't eat enough, our bodies do the smart thing and hold onto whatever they can, since they don't know when more food will be coming. Maybe your body is happy and healthy at the weight it's at as well? Or needs to stay at the weight it's at for awhile before letting go of more pounds. Just some thoughts . . .

In any case, welcome Sarah!

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Linda,

You mentioned Dr. John Lee. He came to my town about 4 years ago. I wanted to see him so bad, but I was too ill at the time to go. Wish I could have seen him before he passed on.

I don't know for sure, but I'm suspecting that my thyroid disease may have been caused from me having soy formula as a baby. I know Dr. Lee has a section in his book pertaining to soy and the thyroid too.

I'm so glad you figured out the connection of your soy products and your period. It just amazes me what different foods can do to our bodies!!!! (i.e. nightshades causes my joints to hurt).

<>< Helen of Tennessee

[FEELIN'GOOD]

...its been my experience in life to learn from those who are already experienced in what I want to learn about. With that being said, go read yani's journal, she is new here, but has been raw for a while, look at her results, and our moderators are here and experienced Rawkinlocs, Smasty, etc................. just do what feels good.


Very well said Glad! :D

[Sharon in Colorado]

I think while you don't want to get obsessive with calorie counting, there's nothing wrong with being aware that there is an average amount of calories that different people with different weights require to function. I see nothing 'wrong' with being aware of your caloric needs.

It isn't good to be extreme one way or the other. You can be an extreme calorie carb/fat/protein counter and keep close track of every single nutrient that enters your body. That is extreme. But then on the other side there's the extremism of not caring at all what goes into your body, just as long as it's raw and edible. That happened to me when I went raw for 3 months one time and my cholesterol wasn't going down like it should have because of the tons of avocadoes and olives and nuts I was eating. There does have to be balance imo.

Now granted, if you are not hungry, then you do need to listen to your body. When we get sick, often we lose our appetites and go to sleep for hours and hours until we are healed. It isn't much different than that. Give yourself a rest if you feel you need it.

Speaking of, perhaps it's rest that you are lacking. Most people don't get nearly enough sleep. There could be many other factors in your life contributing to the way you feel other than diet. Fresh air, sun, excercise, water, your spiritual life. Try looking into them all and see if it is something you are lacking in.

[misslinda]

Hey Helen

that would have been sooooo awesome to meet him--he has saved alot of women and mens lives. I can't believe what a difference it has been without soy products, I won't even touch tofu b/c of his research and thorough findings.

My other favorite is Dr Mercola www.mercola.com if you like Dr John Lee I think you would like Jospeh Mercola too.


Olive you make a good point--it leads to obsession about how much how little and that will drive anyone's mind crazy----Helen, if we're thinking like Dr John Lee, shall we tell Journeytoraw--it's cortisol!!!!!! :p :p

Journeytoraw your thoughts are actually important to consider b/c there are some people that can just do it but some of us NEED to tailor raw to fit our health concerns. Interestingly, my adrenal glands were sooooo off balance that I could not even drink green tea or eat fresh ginger! That's how bad it was. Even though I'm on RAW diet, I still have to research what I eat UNTIL my body is cleased and strengthened. I've been fortunate to get the assistance of retired naturopath. Keep us posted on your progress!


luv,
linda :p

[Sweet lips]

Greetings Journey,

I have been reading through this thread and the many comments. I have said elsewhere and I think glad 2beme said listen the the experts and for me right now, that is what I am doing.

I don't know if you have had the opportunity to visit all of the post but this particular post has helped me with my journey, and also, I have seen it within other groups; it is from Alissa and perhaps this will help you with the bump in your road - I would not like to see you in a pothole, but if you hit one the wrong way, you could be injured, and not accomplish that which you are attempting. http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=452&highlight=stay.

You mentioned that you were juice fasting and working out very hard - the body requires nutrition and rest as Colorado Sharon said, so with that my suggestion would be to feed yourself well, rest your body well, and work out with something left in as you pump up. I too have worked out while fasting, but took a light work out. I fear that you may have some issues with your electrolytes if you are not feeling well after your workout.

Although this is a journey, there is such a wealth of knowlege from those on this site who can work with you through this time- just be aware - that we are very passionate here, and will stand by you, fuss at you,and we will love :D

[smasty]

Hi Guys!!

Ah...the wonderful metabolism discussion! Having come from the body building world where one of the key objectives was RAISING metabolism (to burn fat, get cut, be able to eat a lot to build muscle) contrasted with the world of raw where research will tell you a fast metabolism = faster aging (one of the by-products of metabolism is free radicals). Raw naturally lowers our caloric intake and that will naturally lower metabolism. It's a good thing though. There's a whole group of people living longer higher quality lives that practice caloric restriction. It is documented that animals forced to live 15% underweight, due to caloric restriction, live much longer healthier lives--free of most disease.

So, there's both arguments for you. My personal opinion (that's all it is, every opinion on calorie intake and metabolic effects can have a differing point of view), 645 cals a day is too low, especially if you're working out. If you are a slug on the couch or a computer worker like me (lately)...you can get by. But that is pretty low for your height/weight. I totally agree though that you don't want/need to get into a calorie counting situation though. Are you certain you are only at 645? Did you weigh/measure your food intake to get that calculation? If you guessed, people that guess their calorie intake (via guessing portion sizes) misjudge by an average 50%.

Borrowing from the body building world....I totally agree that a steady stream of nutrients is best for your body. Stay away from a single or two larger meals a day, in favor of smaller meals all day long. A piece of fruit every other hour in the morning...split your lunch up into several small meals, etc. "Starvation Mode" is a real phenomenon where your body will simply not let fat go if it feels survival is threatened. Since our calories are naturally lower on raw, just spread them out during the day by grazing. I try to keep my calories above 1000, and maintenance for me is around 1500...rough estimate (I'm 6'0" 165)