Too many bananas? [Archive]

RawTruth

03-12-2006, 02:19 AM

K - have you checked out Carlene's site? NOT that I think you're obese (I wouldn't know about that, of course!), but because of what she has to say about eating large/small amounts of raw food. But, aside from that, this is from me: I'm sure you already know this, but I just wanted to add that the less we eat, the slower our metabolism becomes, and the more easily weight goes on when we increase back to a "normal" amount of food again. Our body tries to save itself by getting more out of less, but then can be "stuck" in that mode. Be really careful!

I hope you'll take a medical doctor's input with a bunch of grains of (Celtic sea) salt, if s/he is an allopathic physician. Most of them know little to nothing about nutrition -- and that's SAD nutrition!!

Meteor -- you're starting out on raw, right? Here's the lowdown -- eat as many bananas as you want. Don't worry about "balancing" -- eat what you want. If two bananas don't fill you up, eat three, four, etc. Don't worry! A raw and living food diet consists of fresh fruit, vegetables, seeds and nuts. Eat whatever of those that appeals to you. When you're beginning, you needn't fret and anlalyze about amounts. Just eat living foods. After a few months -- or so -- of being completely raw, your body will change and your desires will change. Oftentimes, a person's eating will slow down then. Alissa addresses this fantastically in her book.

Fruit -- how long have you been all raw? If ... and when ... you are, supposed hypoglycemia disappears.

Shivananda

03-12-2006, 09:36 AM

It seems to give me problems when i eat all raw.

Are you sure it's eating all raw that is giving you problems? Or is it eating all raw fruit that gives you problems? You should eat a balanced diet, and fruit alone will not give you that. It seems to me that many raw foodists eat unbalanced diets from laziness or lack of knowledge about how to "uncook" interesting meals. Many I've known just eat what is easy to eat. But investing a little time and energy in your food prep can not only give you better nutrition, but cut your overall food costs tremendously.

Here's an example... looking around the produce section today at my organic market, I saw most of the fruits selling in the $1 - $8 per pound price range. In the bulk section hulled raw sunflower seeds were 29 cents a point. The fruits are mostly water. The sunflower seeds are mostly solid food. Eating some of each makes sense to me. So I make a big batch of sunny pate once a week and have that in all kinds of wraps and rawviolis and such, and it costs less than a couple of apples.

And making sprouts at home is easy. 10 cents worth of seeds will produce many dollars worth of sprouts, and you can easily put them in almost anything you are preparing.

One thing that I have sometimes forgotten... if I can't afford the organic produce for a while, and have to eat conventional produce, it's still way healthier than eating processed food.

Shivananda

03-12-2006, 09:56 AM

I am going to the doctor in April wo we can figure out what is wrong with my metabolism.

Maybe nothing is. When people eat starvation diets and don't lose weight, it is most often caused by their metabolism working exactly the way it is supposed to. We're internally programmed to conserve body fat in times of famine, to improve our chances of living through it. So when you eat like a bird, your body thinks "oh, it's a famine!" and slows down, reducing your energy and vitality.

And anyway, diet alone is not enough to lose weight in a healthy way. You didn't mention how much exercise you are getting. If you are not exercising vigorously at least 30 minutes a day... as in "get sweaty and out of breath" vigorous... your body will continue to think you are starving and keep a tight grip on your body fat. But with regular exercise, you actually can reset your body's "fat thermostat" to accept a lower weight and body fat content as your normal status.

Plus, starvation diets often lead to serious nutritional imbalances, and those shortages can lead to food cravings and bingeing and other craziness, thereby sabotaging the whole effort. Better to eat a balanced diet, but limit your portions, and exercise more.

pinenut

03-12-2006, 10:07 AM

[QUOTE=Shivananda]When bananas are green, as they are when they are shipped, they are largely starch and marginally digestible. As they ripen the live enzymes in the banana will gradually be converted into sugars, making them progressively sweeter and more digestible.

Ok, then I have a question for you: We have a type of tropical banana here that is only eaten when green. I don't know their specific name (except that they are called green bananas), but they are about the size of Lady Fingers and have the consistency and flavor of Plaintans. Do you think that these would be considered to starchy to be healthy enough to eat regularly? They taste good when eaten green, but I'm now wondering if they aren't good for me when eaten green.

monkeyboy

03-12-2006, 10:48 AM

Hi Everyone,

The banana is the Hostess Twinkie of the raw food world.

I eat 2 every morning. Yum Yum

Peace,

M.B.

Shivananda

03-12-2006, 11:18 AM

I have had five apples today..plus other fruits...it's all good.:> Heather

I'm not picking on you Heather, and if it works for you, great. But your post reminded me of something Gabriel Cousens, M.D. says in "Rainbow Green Live-Food Cuisine", that he has observed when people are not thriving on an all raw diet, it is usually because they are eating too much fruit. And it seems to me many people who complain here about all raw diets not working for them are eating lots of fruit. Hmmmmmmmmm. Might there possibly be a connection? Ya think?

And all fruits are not created equal, of course. Bananas are among the highest glycemic index (GI - bioavailable sugar content) fruits, apples are medium, lemons and limes are low. Cousens has created a staged approach that is quite easy to understand an follow, to eat only low GI fruits for a while, then gradually add medium GI, then finally add high GI fruits... but sparingly. So eating lots of bananas doesn't seem to make much sense under any conditions.

misslinda

03-12-2006, 12:23 PM

Bananas seem to get the bad wrap every now and then :p

but according to enzyme pioneer Dr. Howell, our body enzymes that already exist are over worked from years of eating cooked foods etc. So I have to wonder if HG fruits or vegetable are a concern b/c the body is already in needing or repair? If one's body is at optimal functioing then HG foods would not be a concern b/c has all of it s reources and abilities to assimilate them?

Ironcially, bananas are one of the highest in enzymes along with mangos,avacoado and grapes.........

:)

misslinda

03-12-2006, 12:45 PM

forgot to insert
Dr Howell

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/enzymes.html

misslinda

03-12-2006, 12:52 PM

I'm learning I'm learning :p

What is starch?
Plants store their energy by stringing together many glucose molecules into a long complex of several hundred to several thousand glucose molecules. Plant foods that have stored energy, for example seeds that must provide energy for the young plant when it starts growing, are high in starch. When the young plant starts growing, the starch is broken down to form glucose for energy. Starch is found in food as amylose starch, which is a straight chain starch, and amylopectin starch, which is a branched chain starch.

When you eat foods with starch, like corn or potatoes, your body digests this very large carbohydrate in much the same way as it digests protein. Your body uses a number of enzymes to cut down a large, linear starch chain into the small individual units that are linked together, the glucose molecules, which can then be absorbed in the intestines. The enzymes that breakdown starches are called amylases. Amylases are very important because starch is prevalent in our diet and a main source from which we derive glucose, the primary sugar molecule the body uses for energy. Amylases actually cut starch down to two-sugar units, maltose and isomaltose, and then other enzymes, called maltase and isomaltase, hydrolyze these two sugars into the individual monosaccharide glucose.

Amylases are produced in the mouth and, therefore, when you eat starch it is immediately acted upon, beginning the process of starch breakdown. This is one of the reasons why thoroughly chewing rather than gulping your food is so important. Since the smaller sugars that come from amylase action on starch are sweeter tasting, if you hold a cracker in your mouth and swish saliva around it, you may notice the appearance of a sweeter taste.

One special kind of starch is found in some foods, such as raw, green bananas. It is called resistant starch, and gets its name because it is resistant to digestion. Therefore, resistant starch is more like a fiber, traveling through the intestinal tract undigested until it reaches the large intestine where, like fiber, it may be fermented by the bacteria in the colon.

Maybe it's not the bananas.........saliva issue.....most basic part of digestion-chewing.

I would think if one is properly chewing that most of the work (body enzymes) doesn't have to participate. and make us suseptible to "sugar" issues?

jaurequi

03-12-2006, 12:58 PM

There's nothing wrong with fruit. If you are not in balance you'll know it by the way you feel. The truth is, you've been out of balance for years. right now you need to focus on going raw -- that's it; the balancing comes later. It takes time to find the right balance for your individual needs.
This is why it is important to "just eat raw" until you are secure in it; *then* you can refine it and find what works for your goals.

If you feel like 10 bananas, eat them; you will not feel like that everyday.

If I learned nothing else from Alissa's book it is to eat raw -- whatever it may be -- in order to stay raw. I personally did not struggle with raw foods at all and did not need this advice; however that always stayed in my mind - I knew what to do if I ever did face a problem. The advice about when struggling or tempted, etc. to just eat a raw alternative even if it's not "optimal" is what will get you to your goals sooner, whether it's weightloss or an optimal diet. That to me is the raw key. When you feel like bingeing, when you feel like eating cooked, eat a raw alternative, even if it's decadent.

Best,

RawTruth

03-12-2006, 01:14 PM

Hey newbies -- yes, even those of you who are not "new" in chronological years -- this is an old, old, old, old, OLD debate!!! If you search through the archives, you'll find seemingly endless discussions about. I can hear the voices now -- Graham, Grubin, Cousens, Wolfe, Wigmore, Walker, Jubb, Bisci, Zavasta, Boutenko, ... natural hygienists, rainbow diet, wheatgrass, colonics, green juices, and on and on and on.

And then, some newbies are stuck in that food pyramid - balanced diet mode. This is a problematic mindset to be in because it is based on -- ta da! cooked food, processed food, Standard American diet. Think about it - supplementing with vitamins and most other substances is to make up for a huge deficit: the fact that cooked food lacks nutrients!! The food pyramid was created by the agriculature department in conjunction with businesses in order to create consumers for their goods. We have been brainwashed. BRAINWASHED!!

Let me be as clear as possible and then I'm outta here (trying to use Monkeyboy as an example, but not quite there yet!!) -- when you're eating all raw, you don't have to "balance" your diet with "protein" foods, fruits, vegetables, etc. You don't need to count calories, carbs, amounts, nutrients. You don't need to model your meals after cooked, so-called "interesting" meals. YES!! At the beginning, that is what will appeal to you. Great, fine, cool. Do it. That's what Alissa's book will help you with, after all. But, don't confuse how those recipes look like "cooked" foods with the need to "balance" in the old way that you should be delighted to shrug off. Your body is an amazing thing that is far far more than what doctors and "nutritionists" understand. All of their work has been focused on bodies compromised by illness and, even in those considered healthy, by the ravages of the toxins that come from eating cooked food.

Dang, folks!! It's rather audacious for those beginning this journey to make judgments about how long-time raw foodists eat. When you're years down the line, you'll have some credibility. Right now, though, all you have is your opinion. And, guess what -- everyone has one.

Now I will get back to opening the durian that's been staring at me while I've taken way too much time here. Off to bliss.

misslinda

03-12-2006, 01:19 PM

LOL to the most extreme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

:) I can only speak for myself here but it's not that I question the raw food lifestyle but I :: relish :: in discussing subjects on a deeper level. Kinds of helps me to intimately understand my body food and why I make the choices I do. Maybe more so the fact that I have an annoying analytical side :eek: Let my sis be the witness!!!!!!!! :D

Okay Shiva, it's your turn :p LOL!

cdepalmer

03-12-2006, 01:37 PM

I hope I am eating enough. I am noramlly a huge SAD eater and since going raw I find myself grazing throughout the day. I just can't eat as much as I use to. Is that normal. And I walked 4 miles today and I am not any more hungry than normal. I want to make sure I am eating enough. That sounds weird.
Thanks,
Cindy

RawTruth

03-12-2006, 01:51 PM

Now I will get back to opening the durian that's been staring at me while I've taken way too much time here. Off to bliss.I dropped a chunk on the floor. Boo hoo for me. Not for my dog, though. She's flying high smelling of durian instead of doggie breath now.

Vandy

03-12-2006, 03:19 PM

I would just like to say that I mono-meal, and when I eat bananas I can eat up to 15 or 18 bananas... I am 5"6 and about 100 pounds.. I feel great when I eat them, and it anything I think they rev up my metabolism... not only that but they keep me full until my next meal so I don't have to snack (which is not so great for BMs if u know what I am saying)... just wanted to contribute my voice in the matter...

I say eat as many as your heart desires... that's what's beautiful about God's raw food...more food=more nutrition... just don't overeat until you pass out

rawpriestess

03-12-2006, 05:03 PM

There are many many types of bananas, we get about 5 different ones here in the states,

so the small lady finger green ones are probably just fine.

I personally like my banans just as they are starting to speckle, anything after that is too sweet for me, and too mushy.

I do love bananas though

tried the lady fingers, too sweet

never tried a red one, or a plantain, although Dragggon(my hubby) has and he likes them, but he didn't eat our US store bought ones, he ate them years ago, while travelling in the tropics and probably picked them himself if I know him.

and there is at least one person on this board who eats 20 bananas a day, YES, I said 20, I can't fathom it, but I remember that number because they said it more than once.

So, especially in the beginning of raw, eat raw, and enjoy it, eat what ever you like, then after being raw for a while, what ever a "while" is to you, 2 weeks, 6 months, 5 years, IF you feel you need to eat a different way, then do that, more greens, less fruit, less grains, more sprouts, it's all a process

But Alissa says in her book, when you first start out, just eat raw, and don't limit anything, because the biggest mistake people make when they go raw, is to NOT eat enough or to limit their choices.

it really is as simple as EAT RAW

good luck on your choices.

misslinda

03-12-2006, 05:05 PM

RP, what does the red one taste like? I've seen them but never got the chance to try it as they sold out fast. :)

Shivananda

03-12-2006, 06:20 PM

I say eat as many as your heart desires... that's what's beautiful about God's raw food...more food=more nutrition...

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no! Some folks may get away with eating like that, but many cannot. If that were always true for everyone then I would just sit here and eat nothing but medjool dates and almonds and think I'm in heaven and sooner or later go into diabetic shock and then someone would have to come and haul my body away and I wouldn't be here any more to nag you about silly stuff like this.

Look, one of the things that kept me pushed back from trying an all raw diet for 5 years was that I met so many raw foodists who were really unhealthy. Mostly those folks seemed poorly educated about food content, and were merely following some simple-minded mantra like "eat what you like, as long as its raw," and staying hopelessly deluded about the fact that their awful diet was keeping them sick. Many had serious, obvious food addictions or phobias; and some had serious, obvious nutritional deficiencies. But they would all write off the symptoms of their diet-induced illness as "just detox" and keep eating badly. But hey, wow, it was raw and it was organic! Peace out, brother!

If eating raw was really as simple as eating whatever you want as long as it is raw, then books by Gabrielle Cousins' and David Wolfe and other raw food gurus would each be 1 page long. But they are not, because it is a much, much more complex subject than that. Especially when one has imbalance in the body to begin with.

I've been with the Boutenkos, and heard Victoria talk about Sergei intuitively monomealing himself into wellness. I was inspired by the story, and applauded right along with everyone else. And certainly I say, good for you if that works for you. But I've known too many people it didn't work for at all to make any kind of broad recommendation of that approach.

And looking to my own experience, there are whole categories of foods I would never eat based on what appeals to me. Like, I'd never eat green vegetables, because I fundamentally just don't like them. But I do eat a lot of them because I know what they provide nutritionally, and I've learned how to make them much more appetizing to myself.

If anything does seem to me to approach a universal law about raw food eating, I'd say it would be more like "Eat as varied a diet as possible, keep it fun, and eat overall for nutritional content."

rawpriestess

03-12-2006, 06:28 PM

I repeat:

But Alissa says in her book, when you first start out, just eat raw, and don't limit anything, because the biggest mistake people make when they go raw, is to NOT eat enough or to limit their choices.

Shivananda

03-12-2006, 06:33 PM

There are many many types of bananas, we get about 5 different ones here in the states,

I'll have to go see if I can look this up, but when I lived in LA I used to get gourmet bananas from a guy who had a micro-climate plantation near Santa Barbara where he grew something like 20 different varieties of different sizes and colors, most of which are never imported to the US because they can't be harvested green or are too fragile for long shipment times. There are little teeny ones, smaller even than the cocktail bananas you sometimes see in the stores, and red ones and all kinds.

And I had bananas growing outside my apartment in Hollywood, but they never seemed to get edible.

RawTruth

03-12-2006, 06:50 PM

. . . some simple-minded mantra like "eat what you like, as long as its raw,"I have emphasized that this is what people should do -- at the beginning of starting raw -- to get them into the raw lifestyle. This is not for a lifetime. The original poster was just starting raw. NOT having the limitations of keeping things "balanced" at the beginning can make all the difference for him staying raw or going back to truly unhealthful ways of eating.

I don't want to debate who knows how many "unhealthy" raw people vs. healthy raw people; we could go on all night with our anectdotal examples. Tit for tat has never been constructive, in my experience.

I remain steadfast in supporting what Alissa espouses and that came from her almost 20 years of doing this -- within a community of contemporary raw pioneers, including the people mentioned in this thread -- which is people have a greater chance of staying raw if they eat without restriction AT THE BEGINNING (which RP has pointed out can vary from person to person) and that our health not only WON'T be compromised by doing this, it will be enhanced.

Vandy

03-12-2006, 07:18 PM

Shivanada~

I did not say to eat whatever you want all the time... I also completely disagree with eating nothing but almonds and dates... I strictly follow the 8/1/1 and I eat at LEAST two pounds (yes pounds) of greens a day... but I also think that in order for one to be successful with raw they should eat enough...get in those calories. I am young and active (run every day) and I need that extra energy. I have also read "Rainbow Green Live Food Cuisine," and I am not a high-sugar eater; however, when I do eat a mono-meal of a fruit that is high in sugar, I always balance it out. I have also read in many other books that state that people fall off the raw wagon if they eat too many fats and not ENOUGH fruit. You can argue this in so many ways, but what works for one perosn on this diet may not work for another. Therefore, balance is the key, not only in a diet, but also in life. People who just start must feel supported (Everyone should feel supported). I felt somewhat attacked by your reply to my post, and I feel as if you took my words and used them against me. That is just how I feel.

fiddler

03-12-2006, 07:29 PM

FWIW, I love bananas and sometimes eat 'em in large quantity. They're especially great for quickly satisfying hunger. For example, this past week I averaged about 10-12 bananas a day with one day eating 16 bananas. Much easier to do when you blend them with water. However, I worked out hard this week with weights and running so it made it easier for me.

Will I eat this many bananas next week, maybe or maybe not. I may go a week or two without eating any.

Don't think you can eat that many? Huh, just blend 6 of 'em with water and see how easy they go down...

Q1: Am I an expert? No!
Q2: Is everyone on this board an expert? No, see Q1.

Cheers,
Gil

Vandy

03-12-2006, 07:48 PM

well said Gil...well said

Shivananda

03-12-2006, 07:54 PM

there is at least one person on this board who eats 20 bananas a day, YES, I said 20, I can't fathom it, but I remember that number because they said it more than once.
Well, nothing personal against that person, whoever they are, but that just sounds like straight out sugar binging to me, plus a touch of drug addiction.

Here, lets take a look at the actual nutritional details. My assumption for this analysis is that an average size banana is about a cup in size. On that basis, 20 bananas equals:

4,000 calories, more than a 6' tall pro athelete needs in 24 hours

And those calories are mostly from 560 grams of highly digestible sugar - this much sugar could put many people in the hospital, and at the very least would likely cause an intense sugar high. This could cause a false sense of wellbeing as one zoomed around with manic energy, and then a following crash that could encourage one to load up all over again.

1020 grams total carbohydrates, nearly 7 times recommended daily intake . Not good.

457 mg of potassium - 10 times the daily requirement, and into the danger zone for possible heart failure according to some experts

40 mg of sodium - too high for some

120 grams dietary fiber, approximately 5 times the accepted RDA. At least this will likely make you poop a lot.

But little beta carotene, no thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, or folic acid, only 20% of one's daily requirement for calcium, and missing most trace minerals, etc.

Conclusion, not something that will likely harm you to do occasionally if your overall health is good, but likely to leave you seriously nutrient deprived in several critical areas if you do it often.

And finally this general note, which may hold the real key to why someone might eat 20 bananas a day: Bananas are an excellent source of vitamin B6, which is needed to make a neurotransmitter called serotonin in the brain. Serotonin has been shown to reduce pain, depress appetite and make you feel relaxed and less stressed. Excessive amounts can be intoxicating.

So it could be said that a person who eats 20 bananas a day is possibly addicted to the drug effects that eating such massive quantities of bananas could produce.

misslinda

03-12-2006, 08:18 PM

Well, nothing personal against that person, whoever they are, but that just sounds like straight out sugar binging to me, plus a touch of drug addiction.

Here, lets take a look at the actual nutritional details. My assumption for this analysis is that an average size banana is about a cup in size. On that basis, 20 bananas equals:

4,000 calories, more than a 6' tall pro athelete needs in 24 hours

And those calories are mostly from 560 grams of highly digestible sugar - this much sugar could put many people in the hospital, and at the very least would likely cause an intense sugar high. This could cause a false sense of wellbeing as one zoomed around with manic energy, and then a following crash that could encourage one to load up all over again.

1020 grams total carbohydrates, nearly 7 times recommended daily intake . Not good.

457 mg of potassium - 10 times the daily requirement, and into the danger zone for possible heart failure according to some experts

40 mg of sodium - too high for some

120 grams dietary fiber, approximately 5 times the accepted RDA. At least this will likely make you poop a lot.

But little beta carotene, no thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, or folic acid, only 20% of one's daily requirement for calcium, and missing most trace minerals, etc.

Conclusion, not something that will likely harm you to do occasionally if your overall health is good, but likely to leave you seriously nutrient deprived in several critical areas if you do it often.

And finally this general note, which may hold the real key to why someone might eat 20 bananas a day: Bananas are an excellent source of vitamin B6, which is needed to make a neurotransmitter called serotonin in the brain. Serotonin has been shown to reduce pain, depress appetite and make you feel relaxed and less stressed. Excessive amounts can be intoxicating.

So it could be said that a person who eats 20 bananas a day is possibly addicted to the drug effects that eating such massive quantities of bananas could produce.

LOL..........I haven't laughed like this in a long long time! :p too frickin funny.

Shivananda

03-12-2006, 08:29 PM

I felt somewhat attacked by your reply to my post, and I feel as if you took my words and used them against me. That is just how I feel.
I apologize if you felt that way, it was not my intent. Not at all. I'm a very loving person, and I'm simply trying to contibute to others here with my postings. I may have attacked the ideas you presented, but I was not attacking you at all.

I am passionate, and I am opinionated, and I have a whole lot of information at my fingertips, and I'm much more comfortable with the process of rigorous critical thinking than most people are, yes. AND I sometimes present myself more strongly than some people are comfortable with.

Oh well.

I'm not about having people stay comfortable. What I am about is having people lead passionate, vibrant, creative, fully self expressed lives.

So instead of getting insulted, or feeling hurt by what I have to say here, I suggest you concentrate on what I'm saying. because I'm not saying it to hurt anyone.

fiddler

03-12-2006, 08:36 PM

Here, lets take a look at the actual nutritional details. My assumption for this analysis is that an average size banana is about a cup in size. On that basis, 20 bananas equals:

4,000 calories, more than a 6' tall pro athelete needs in 24 hours.

Hmmm, where did you get your assumption that an average size banana equals 1 cup?

My LivingCookbook software shows the following calories for bananas:
1 small = 89.89 calories
1 medium (7" to 7-7/8" long) = 105.02 calories
1 large (8" to 8-7/8" long) = 121.04 calories
1 cup, mashed = 200.25 calories

So, some basic arithmetic shows that 20 bananas worth of calories would range from 1798 calories (for small size) to 2,420 (for the large size). And, the other nutrients in your post would therefore also be elevated.

I knew your assumption was off right away because when I make a smoothie, I pour the juice in first (3 cups) and then have to add more than one banana to watch the level jump from 3 cups to 4 cups :)

So, now it doesn't quite look like the person who eats 20 bananas is as reckless as you portray in your post.

Whew, man I'm glad to hear that since I ate so many bananas this week. I know I'm wreckless but I was worried I really harmed my body there for a minute eating 10 - 12 bananas a day.

Cheers,
Gil
"Secure Network, we don't need ... " :)

LeanAndHungry

03-12-2006, 08:40 PM

I think your numbers are wrong.

One medium banana has
105 calories
27g carbs
3g fiber
14.5g sugar
422mg potassium

20 would be
2100 calories
540g carbs
60g fiber (RDA is iprobably too low anyway)
290g sugar
8.4g(yes that's grams) potassium

That's still a lot of all that stuff for one meal.

I got these numbers from the USDA.

misslinda

03-12-2006, 08:42 PM

OMG......LOL....now can't figure out the caloric value of a banana!!!!!!!!

Ahhhhhhahahahhaha :p this thread is comical. I wish it were live!

LeanAndHungry

03-12-2006, 08:46 PM

I had no idea I would create such a ruckus starting this seemingly benign thread.

fiddler

03-12-2006, 08:50 PM

Ruckus, smuckus.... :)

I only replied to Shiva's post because it was blatantly misleading to folks -- especially us banana lovers :)

Its great that nature protects us from overeating on natural foods. To arrive at Shiva's inflated 20 cups of bananas you'd have to eat 38 bananas instead of 20 bananas :)

Cheers,
Gil

misslinda

03-12-2006, 08:56 PM

Shiva, are you including the peel ? :D

Meteor, how many bananas you have left.....how'bout we do an experiment? :eek:

fiddler

03-12-2006, 09:05 PM

Shiva, are you including the peel ? :D

LOL!!! Maybe Shiva got ahold of some new conventional genetically modified bananas that doubled in volume or the "/2" print wore off his measuring cup in the dishwasher.

Its all good. Shiva, I do enjoy your posts just so you know; I like technical stuff too.

Sending warmest regards to all,
Gil

misslinda

03-12-2006, 09:56 PM

Fiddler, I just visited your sites........WOW, I'm very inspired. I'm a fiddler to....in a classical sense. Violin but play Mozart and those guys. I see you also paly mandolin,guitar etc.........very impressive. :)

rawpriestess

03-12-2006, 10:36 PM

Now, let me state that I didn't say that this person ONLY ate 20 bananas, and that it was in one meal.

They eat 20 bananas plus tons of other stuff all throughout the day, I'm gonna' see if I can find that post, back in a minute.

Okay, I couldn't find that post, but I did find one that Gosia wrote saying she eats 5 to 10 bananas a day.

honeybee joy

03-12-2006, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by fruit:
Does anyone here have hypoglycemia? It seems to give me problems when i eat all raw.

Originally posted by Shivananda:
Are you sure it's eating all raw that is giving you problems? Or is it eating all raw fruit that gives you problems? You should eat a balanced diet, and fruit alone will not give you that.

I have to totally agree with Shivananda. I have insulin resistance. When I first went raw I would eat loads of fruit, (high sugar fruits at that) and hardly any veggies or fats. I now make it a priority to get fats, (I love hempseeds) Lots of veggies. I also do a green drink a day also. That made such a difference for me. I was always having low blood sugar problems, but now things are much better. I rarely get brain foggy from it. I even drink orange juice. I do try to have more lower glycemic fruits for the most part for now, till my body heals, so there are not crazy ups and downs with my blood sugar.

Eating enough foods help also. I was not eating enough in the beggining. I try to eat 4-5 times a day. I was only doing 2-3 before.

Hope that helps.

PATH301

03-12-2006, 11:21 PM

This guy eats an tons of banana's a day - he's a raw body builder:
http://www.charliesgym.info/

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 12:22 AM

misslinda

03-13-2006, 12:25 AM

. Why on earth would anyone eat 20 of them in a day, if not for the sugar rush and the seretonin high?

I mean, considering the only other factor mentioned here, if I am constipated (which I seldom am) 2 bananas are more than sufficient to blow open the safe. Why overdo it?

Color me puzzled.

LOL..........yur killin me Shiva! :p I can't fall asleep after reading this...........FLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 12:38 AM

This guy eats an tons of banana's a day - he's a raw body builder:
Geez Louise, this guy eats every hour and a half, or 10 meals a day, and consumes 3589 calories a day. All he does is eat and work out. How can he possibly have anything valid to say about the lives of real folks like you or me? And who knows when his kidneys will croak from the strain?

Sorry, I want a far more normal life, with EVERYTHING in healthy balance, not just overdeveloped muscles and a huge grocery bill.

"Show me a man with six pack abs, and I'll show you a man with too much time on his hands!" - overheard in a bar one time. :)

misslinda

03-13-2006, 12:52 AM

Geez Louise, this guy eats every hour and a half, or 10 meals a day, and consumes 3589 calories a day. All he does is eat and work out. How can he possibly have anything valid to say about the lives of real folks like you or me? And who knows when his kidneys will croak from the strain?

Sorry, I want a far more normal life, with EVERYTHING in healthy balance, not just overdeveloped muscles and a huge grocery bill.

"Show me a man with six pack abs, and I'll show you a man with too much time on his hands!" - overheard in a bar one time. :)

Shiva, when you write your own book, i'll be the first to buy it! :D

i'm crackin up here and will be sleeping happy tonite ;)

laugh with me,
ml

rawpriestess

03-13-2006, 12:53 AM

misslinda

03-13-2006, 01:01 AM

I wish to say, that Dragggon has 6 pack abs, NEVER works out, is almost 50, and he works hours and hours in our office every day, plus in the gardens

he definitely does NOT have too much time on his hands, not by a long shot.

HA! a comeback! :D :: i'm keepin tally everyone ::

ugh, Shiva........she's not joking --pics prove it. :eek:

plus he eats bananas! :D

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 01:02 AM

I wish to say, that Dragggon has 6 pack abs, NEVER works out, is almost 50, and he works hours and hours in our office every day, plus in the gardens he definitely does NOT have too much time on his hands, not by a long shot.

Oh, puhleeez... lighten up... my comment was a joke. Meant to give a giggle, not to be taken seriously.

Anyway, I'm probably just deliriously jealous, you know, because my abs are less like a six pack and more like a case and a half.

seand11

03-13-2006, 02:08 AM

hi Shivananda, how long have you been doing this for?

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 06:49 AM

hi Shivananda, how long have you been doing this for?
What, being a wiseass and making people roll around on the floor laughing their glutes off? I'm not sure, but about 58 years if witness accounts can be trusted.

Or all raw all the time (ARAT)? I'm on Day 15 of my 30 Day Challenge.
Or some raw some of the time? (SRST)? or ARST? or SRAT? About 6 years total, on and off and on and off. You know, what others call "transitioning." :)

Macrobiotic before that. (Macrobiotics are basically veg, but they also eat a little fish and limit raw food to less than 10% of their total diet.)
Lapsed vegetarion before that... ummmmm 1970 onward from time to time. I'm part of the 10% of the population that never thrives on a traditional vegetarian diet, so it was very easy for me to fall off the turnip truck each time I seriously tried it.

The main reason I was SRST for so long (or even at all) was, as I have detailed elsewhere, because the woman in my life had been ARAT for quite a while, then was SRST and trying to get back to being ARAT. But I wasn't very interested in being ARAT myself, mostly because of memories of how lousy I always felt on previous vegetarian diets, but also because of how bored I quickly became with macro.

Finally the nearly simultaneous conjunction of 5 factors around the first of this year convinced me to try ARAT... 1) I got seriously ill, 2) I had no insurance or cash to throw at the issue, 3) a naturopath recommended it to me, 4) my girldfriend (once again) recommended it to me, and (once again) reminded me that Alissa Cohen sometimes taught classes in this area (Boston), and 5) I newly found the recipes of Alissa (and others like Nomi Shannon, Rhio, Charlie Trotter and Roxanne Klein) to be sufficiently entertaining and interesting to engage my heart and mind. And palate.

I had read a lot about live food over the last 6 years, and attended classes with the Boutenkos, with Dan Hoyt (of Quintessance), with a raw chef from a great veg restaurant in Anchorage, and been to Quintessence and Angelika's Kitchen and Caravan of Dreams and Pure Food & Wine and others in NYC, and Organic Garden Cafe in Beverly, MA, and received Alissa's newsletter for a year and been juicing the whole time, so it finally seemed like the right time to jump in and see how well I do as ARAT.

Updates as they become available. Film at 11.

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 07:00 AM

Shiva, when you write your own book, i'll be the first to buy it! :D i'm crackin up here and will be sleeping happy tonite ;) laugh with me, ml

Oh my, how you do turn a boyz head with your praise. :)

fiddler

03-13-2006, 07:31 AM

Hi Gil,

OK, now that I have had the chance to actually check out my calcs in the ultra modern high tech comfort of Shivananda's Test Kitchen, I see where my figures got a bit inflated in my earlier estimations. I was working off the figures for nutritional content of a cup of bananas, and estimating 1 cup per banana., exactly as I stated.

But when I just mashed an actual large ripe banana at STK, it didn't quite fill the cup. So a medium would be less, yes, and the total for 20 medium bananas would be less, yes. But the totals are STILL unbelievable, even after adjustment. I just don't understand why you would do that to yourself. Bananas are primarily big sugar sticks, near the top on Gabriel Cousens list of high-glycemic fruits to be severely limited in one's diet. Why on earth would anyone eat 20 of them in a day, if not for the sugar rush and the seretonin high?

I mean, considering the only other factor mentioned here, if I am constipated (which I seldom am) 2 bananas are more than sufficient to blow open the safe. Why overdo it?

Color me puzzled.

Amazing how a simple oversight can cause so much discussion :)

Shiva, I didn't say I ate 20 bananas in one day. I did say that I ate 16 one day but that is not my normal consumption of bananas. Plus, the bananas were small bananas. And your initial post was more than "a bit inflated". Estimating that 1 banana = 1 cup of bananas is nearly twice as high for medium bananas, therefore almost doubling the numbers -- that's more than "a bit inflated".

I haven't read Gabriel Cousins yet. Bananas are NOT sugar sticks. If they were sugar sticks, I'm sure you'd see more kids buying them in vending machines.

As for 6-pack abs, most guys would have these if they lost the fat that covers them...

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 08:08 AM

Bananas are NOT sugar sticks. If they were sugar sticks, I'm sure you'd see more kids buying them in vending machines.

Sure they are big sugar sticks. Go back and read the numbers and think about what those numbers mean. Sugar is the key nutrient, and other than fiber and water, there's really not much else there, by weight. That's why bananas are so addictive for some people. And that's why bananas are one of the first foods babies are introduced to, because "sweet" is the first taste sense to develop, and bananas are very sweet. Plus, of course, the fact that they're such simple food and so easy to digest. So most babies transition to bananas very quickly.

And many kids really love them, some to the point of overeating them if not limited. But not all, and processed snack foods are engineered to be more appealing than natural foods. Some don't care for bananas at all. I was (am)in the latter group. As a matter of fact, I detest the smell of Juicy Fruit gum, I mean I am really repelled by it, but I did not know until adulthood that what I was reacting unfavorably to was the banana oil that makes up the most prominent note in Juicy Fruit's smell and taste.

In any case, if I eat 2 big bananas at the same time today I get woozy from the sugar rush. I pretty much have to force them down, so I'm fairly safe. I mostly eat them today, as breakfast or in smoothies, for their high potassium contemt, which I need nutritionally.

JMD

03-13-2006, 08:13 AM

How ABOUT WE ALL agree to disagree and just say that what works for ONE body may not work for another....

Harmony people I am asking for some harmony here :) lol :D

LeanAndHungry

03-13-2006, 08:34 AM

I ate four of them this morning with some strawberries and ground flax seeds in a smoothie. I didn't get any rush really. I feel pretty good, aside from a headache I've had for a little more than a day. I probably won't eat any more of them today.

Sometimes, actually quite often, I eat a whole Maradol Papaya to start a meal. These things can weight up to 4lbs, but usually they are 2.5-3lbs. I get stuffed eating whole one. Here is the nutritional information for a papaya for 2lbs of the flesh from the USDA. Looking at this, it seems like papaya is one of the most nutritious foods out there. I now don't feel so bad about overeating these. I should try to limit it to half of one at a time though.

Nutrient Units Value per
900 grams
Proximates
Water g 799.47
Energy kcal 351 (Calories, as we know them)
Energy kj 1467
Protein g 5.49
Total lipid (fat) g 1.26
Ash g 5.49 33
Carbohydrate, by difference g 88.29
Fiber, total dietary g 16.2
Sugars, total g 53.10

Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg 216
Iron, Fe mg 0.90
Magnesium, Mg mg 90
Phosphorus, P mg 45
Potassium, K mg 2313
Sodium, Na mg 27
Zinc, Zn mg 0.63
Copper, Cu mg 0.144
Manganese, Mn mg 0.099
Selenium, Se mcg 5.4

Vitamins
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid mg 556.2
Thiamin mg 0.243
Riboflavin mg 0.288
Niacin mg 3.042
Pantothenic acid mg 1.962
Vitamin B-6 mg 0.171
Folate, total mcg 342
Folic acid mcg 0
Folate, food mcg 342
Folate, DFE mcg_DFE 342
Vitamin B-12 mcg 0.00
Vitamin B-12, added mcg 0.00
Vitamin A, IU IU 9846
Vitamin A, RAE mcg_RAE 495
Retinol mcg 0
Vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol) mg 6.57
Vitamin E, added mg 0.00
Vitamin K (phylloquinone) mcg 23.4

Lynnz

03-13-2006, 08:36 AM

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 09:18 AM

Sometimes, actually quite often, I eat a whole Maradol Papaya to start a meal. These things can weight up to 4lbs, but usually they are 2.5-3lbs.

I agree that papayas are excellent food, but wait... WAIT!!.... you eat 3 pounds of papaya to START a meal?!? I doubt I eat 3 pounds of food total in a whole day!

OMG, what am I missing here? This is just unbelievable to me. Where do you put it all?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Have you been checked recently for tapeworms? :)

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 09:32 AM

I'd love it if someone would talk about the different varieties of bananas--how to choose them, what to look for, when they're ripe, what they taste like (as difficult as it can be to describe tastes.)Here's a description of 5 key types from TheFruitPages.com

Fruit-bananas: are the normal, yellow bananas, 15-30 cm.

Apple-bananas: are smaller, 8-10 cm., and ripen faster. They are also yellow;

Red bananas: have a green/red peel and pink fruit flesh. They taste the same as yellow bananas. The redder a fruit, the more carotene it contains, so perhaps they are slightly healthier than their yellow colleagues;

The baby-banana (pisang susa): is yellow as well and measures 6-8 cm. It is the sweetest of the banana family; (Called cocktail bananas around here)

Baking bananas: are 30 to 40 cm. large and are green, yellow or red-like. They cannot be eaten raw. They fulfill the role of the potato in the tropical countries. (These are commonly called Green Bananas around here, and are very big in the local Carribean and Central American markets and restaurants, where they are often served mashed and then deep fried.)

In general I look for smooth, unbroken skin. Green ends are OK if I don't plan to eat them for a few days, because they are still too hard and starchy to be very enjoyable, and their nutritional content is not fully developed. All yellow peel (or red) means almost ripe. Slightly spotty means fully ripe, with full flavor and ready to eat.

And lots of spots means I can buy them cheap and freeze them for smoothies. :)

LeanAndHungry

03-13-2006, 09:51 AM

I agree that papayas are excellent food, but wait... WAIT!!.... you eat 3 pounds of papaya to START a meal?!? I doubt I eat 3 pounds of food total in a whole day!

OMG, what am I missing here? This is just unbelievable to me. Where do you put it all?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Have you been checked recently for tapeworms? :)

I should have said I don't eat much throughout the day. I eat most of what I do eat in the evening. I'm changing this slowly to eat more earlier in the day, but most days when I work, that's how it works out, at least recently(mostly because I usually don't wake up in time to eat breakfast. There was about a week in which I didn't eat anything till dinner time and on those days I would eat a papaya followed by some other fruit and some type of fat like an avocado and usually finish of with a lot of greens. Unfortunately I would usually binge on other non-raw food later too, like my brother's unfinished pizza, or half a package of deli-sliced cheese, or girlscout cookies, or whatever I can find in the apartment, or I would go out and find some(or a lot of) ice cream. I have been known to over eat, such as a whole half gallong of ice cream in an hour or two or a whole large pizza. And I wondered why I had acne. I used to eat food "because it tastes good and because it is there." I am getting much better at not doing that. Still it's better to do that with papaya than with junk food. In general though, I do eat a lot. But, I am young, I have a decent amount of muscle(but by no means a lot, which burns a lot more energy than fat), and one of my primary motivations to go raw is not to lose weight, though if I lose 10 lbs that will be great, so long as I don't lose any muscle. And I try to stay active, though I am not nearly as active as I would like to be.

misslinda

03-13-2006, 10:41 AM

LOL.......this thread tickles me as were all having fun discussing bananas!

Here we have people who can eat 10-20 bananas a day without problems and a few who adovcates that it would skyrocket your blood sugar.

My thoughts....

I have seen people go thru a whole day eating out of vending machine poppingf refined in theri bodies all day and stopping by McD's for a helping of MSG (damaging to the PANCREAS BIG TIME) laoded foods etc

In light of that, my question Shiva dada to you is........

Aside from the collective-- "people" , what do you personally fear about the blood sugar, what would that do to you in your present current health?

I ask this b/c in the past, I had sugar blood concerns(not diabetic) with panic attacks and naxiety associated with SB. So ,I avoided HG foods. Part of my reluctancy was fear and knowing that my blood sugar was senstive. NOw that I am raw, I can eat a couple of bananans and not fear it will spike me or throw me off. My pancreas functions alot more balanced than they way it use to.

ps i'll get yur autograph later ;) :D

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 11:04 AM

There was about a week in which I didn't eat anything till dinner time and on those days I would eat a papaya followed by some other fruit and some type of fat like an avocado and usually finish of with a lot of greens. Unfortunately I would usually binge on other non-raw food later too, like my brother's unfinished pizza, or half a package of deli-sliced cheese, or girlscout cookies, or whatever I can find in the apartment, or I would go out and find some(or a lot of) ice cream. I have been known to over eat, such as a whole half gallong of ice cream in an hour or two or a whole large pizza. Gotcha. And while I agree that you are young and you burn a lot right now and you don't have a weight problem and all the rest, and I understand that you are not having any big problems yet, but all that won't last forever... trust me on this point... and the eating practices you establish now very well may linger longer than you expect.

I can't tell you how many men I know in their 30's and 40's and 50's who have serious weight and health issues because they still eat like they did in their teens and 20's, even though it is now grossly inappropriate for them.Deep habits can be hard to change.

And to me a key part of what you said is "I would usually binge on other non-raw food later too." That should tell you that your eating is really out of whack. I say that pPounding down 3 pounds of ANYTHING at one sitting is not something you would do if you were eating consciously. You are regularly starving yourself, then binging, which is dangerously close to what some health professionals would call an eating disorder. Except that most teens and college students would probably qualify. :)

I suggest you train yourself to eat consciously, and to pay attention to your body's signals... for when it is time to eat... and when it is time to stop. And since it takes about 20 minuts for your body to signal your brain that your stomach is full (and you can eat a heck of a lot in 20 minutes when you are just gobbling), I suggest you start by slowing way down and paying attention to what you are eating. Eat small bites, and chew them thoroughly. Don't do anything else while you are eating (and don't eat while you are doing anything else) because that just facilitates overeating. Now that you are clear that not eating breakfast at all (you can always grab a banana) and skipping lunch leaves you starving, then figure out how to support yourself better to eat appropriately throughout the day so that you are not crazy at night.

You're in charge of you. So take charge!

Shivananda

03-13-2006, 11:28 AM

Aside from the collective-- "people" , what do you personally fear about the blood sugar, what would that do to you in your present current health?

Simple. As I've stated earlier in several threads and my journal, I've recently become diabetic, and one of my main motives in going ARAT is to completely turn that around without medication. And with my blood glucose meter I can track what a banana does in my body, which is kind of like a rocket blast.

And since the diabetic population in the US is skyrocketing... it has doubled in just the last 10 years, and is now considered an epidemic in NYC of budget busting proportions... I see a possibility of helping a whole lot of people deal with their diabetes non-medically, as well. But I won't teach what I don't personally believe in, so I have to try all these things out on the official Shivananda's Test Kitchen guinea pig... me... before I will recommend any of it to others.

And while I can get that a few rare individuals may be able to eat 20 bananas (thanks to Gwen Stefani for making that so darned easy to spell!) each day (at least for a while) without apparently hurting themselves, either by virtue of having a naturally high metabolism (like teens do) or by working out incessantly (like the body builder), most of us could not, even without diabetes. It's just way, way, way too much sugar for a normal person's body to deal with on a daily basis.

Since going ARAT I've actually added a banana to my daily routine because it feels right and because blood analysis has shown me to be consistently low in potassium, which bananas are very good for.

Vandy

03-13-2006, 11:33 AM

Ok well this may freak you out then...

I don't know how much you eat everyday Shivanada, but I can eat up to

15 bananas
7 pears
4 tomatoes
2 cucumbers
2 POUNDS of leafy greens
a handful of nuts and/or sesame tahini

this is what I ate yesterday...

seeing that those fifteen bananas were my first meal, they accounted for half my calories for the day, which makes sense. I got about 11 grams of protein, a good source of fat, and other vitamins. They are not the MOST nutritious...but don't de-bunk them completely.

today I have been devouring citrus fruits and a mango...

Personally, I think it better to eat two large meals a day as to give the colon time to work on the elimination part of digestion. This also aids in preventing hunger, preventing in snacking, which is helpful. After one accumulates themselves to eating raw, the stomach naturally expands to withold the amount of water content of its capacity. Our stomachs should be able to expand to large amounts of fruit...this is important b/c we have to eat enough! Even Alissa says this! Just wondering, but how much do you eat in a day? do you have BM's regularly? Do you agree with anything Dr. Graham says?

misslinda

03-13-2006, 11:35 AM

Shiva, true that!

Becuz based on folks that are not raw, it would be no suprise that they would be senstive to "starch" or sugar in general.

I don't agree with the statement that it has to do with metabolism (although definition itself is broad) as it has to do with the pancreas (digestive system).

This will be EXCITING to see what you report with the "going bananas" experiment!!! Will you keep us updated here????? :)

seand11

03-13-2006, 11:47 AM

Shivananda,

i wish you would be less adamant and a little more considerate in your preachings of what is dietary right and wrong. consider the possibility you dont know everything, that everything you read is not 100% correct, or at least have some personal experiences to back it up.

this is new territory with a very steep learning curve. many of the so called gurus are making advancements all the time and often their own diet has already much evolved from their published dietary recommendations.

just the fact youve been a yo-yo and unable to maintain the diet for any serious length of time should have you searching for some better answers and weaken your opinions until you can speak from some personal experience.

i only bring this to your attention is because you sound exactly like i used to. i read all the books, probably the same as you, and could regurgitate any of them at will. the word youre spreading will not work for, most, people in the long run of one or two years. ive seen it unsuccessful more times than successful, including my personal experience. so we evolve.

by the way, i eat 20 bananas (or mangos, or equivalent) per day everyday, and thriving.

seand11

03-13-2006, 11:50 AM

i think i remember alissa cohen saying, most of the time she eats simply, and most of the time she eats sweet fruit, and that her gourmet recipes are designed for special occasions and new comers, but maybe not so sustainable long term. also, i think she subscribes to a dr. grahams teachings which promotes 80%+ of calories from sweet fruit. can anyone confirm?

LeanAndHungry

03-13-2006, 12:32 PM

In favor Shivananda's perspective, I once for dinner ate one of my large papayas, followed by 20 dates. THAT was definitely bad for me, though perhaps not as bad as half a pizza. I didn't really feel a sugar high from that, but I sure did crash. I was sitting in front of the tv afterward and all my energy was gone. Maybe it was just the quantity of food filling my stomach, maybe it was the sugar, but whatever it was, it was definitely bad. Fortunately dates aren't really a problem for me anymore. It used to be I would eat as many as I bought that day. I can eat a few and not crave more. Maybe it's because I'm actually starting to stick to this raw thing.

Sheryl

03-13-2006, 03:44 PM

If someone is eating mostly fruit and veg they do need to eat way way more than an average person thinks is normal because they are not eating the calorie dense grains, nuts and seeds. Especially so if they are active!

Say someone needs about 2500 calories a day, and an average piece of fruit is about 80 calories (give or take) that would be 31 pieces of fruit! Now some would be taken up by vegetable and green content, but not that much... say 5-15% max. That's still 26 pieces of fruit. Here are some examples based on the USDA values for calories and weight...

2125 calories of fruit as follows:
125 g per apple at 65 calories = 32 apples = 4 kg of apples
118 g medium banana at 105 calories = 20 bananas = 2.36 kg of bananas
152 g of strawberries (1 cup) at 49 calories = 43 cups of strawberries = 6.6 kg of strawberries (we can see why berries are considered a low cal diet food now - who could afford to buy or have space to eat that many)

Someone who choses to limit nuts, seeds and grains will naturally be eating way more fruit than many consider 'normal'. Where else would they get their calories?? There are many long term raw people doing just that. And balanced with lots of greens this can still easily meet nutrient requirements, and even more balance blood sugar. There is a whole school of thought that says that candida and blood sugar problems are influenced more by high fat content in food mixed with sugar than sugar alone. Just another though for people interested in researching it more.

And just to clarify - I'm not suggesting that someone pick one fruit and meet calories needs on it. That was for demonstration purposes only. I consider a varied diet important for meeting nutirent needs.

Cheers,
Sheryl

RawTruth

03-13-2006, 04:00 PM

Sheryl

03-13-2006, 04:29 PM

Just a few more numbers.... 100 g of papaya is only 39 calories.

So 3 pounds of papaya is about 531 calories! That means someone that eats 3 pounds of papaya is getting less calories that most that eat a salad with a good serving of nut pate!

Cheers,
Sheryl

Vandy

03-13-2006, 04:34 PM

WOO HOO go sheryl and seand11!!!

RawTruth

03-13-2006, 05:02 PM

I have a TERRIFIC idea!!

Here's a REAL challenge to everyone who has posted "authoritatively" on this thread (and who has not yet been all raw for 6 consecutive months):

Before you post again refuting what someone else has written or thinking that just one more post will persuade someone to your way of thinking -- eat 100% raw for one year ... oh, okay, six months ... starting off Alissa's way hopefully (my bias, fer shur, since it has such a high rate of success).

::Yeah. Woohoo!! What a great idea, RT!!::

Try your best to stay away from the obsessive number-counting of calories, nutrients, carbs, etc. and just eat the food.

In the meantime, let this thread rest.

Eat raw, all raw, 100% raw.

Study, read, get off the dang computer and hang out with other people on the same path. Exercise, get sunshine, think good thoughts. Eat raw, eat raw.

Listen to your body. Diabetes and all other illnesses (all diet based!) can be healed. Eat raw, eat raw.

Don't think you know everything. Let go of being right. Eat raw.

Keep an open mind.

TA DA! Where did the time go? -- At the end of 6 months, come back to this thread and let's see what everyone has to say then.

Did I mention to let go and just eat raw?

What do you need all that control for anyway?

Eat raw.

Eat raw.

Sheryl

03-13-2006, 05:11 PM

You are so beautiful! I love your post!

So many people I know count calories and fat grams. It seems very unnatural. Much better to eat real food and move and get fresh air every day! You just know by how you feel that you are moving closer to health every single day!

Thank you!
Sheryl

fiddler

03-13-2006, 05:36 PM

** Group Hug **

RawTruth

03-13-2006, 05:40 PM

You do have a guest room, don't you, Sheryl? Oh, never mind. I'll just bring my sleeping bag when I head Down Under. After we visit, I'm hoping to get lost in that tropical farm where you sent the last Americans through there! :p

Sheryl

03-13-2006, 05:59 PM

Actually we have THREE guest rooms! You are welcome to visit! We just had guests over the weekend (3) and brought them to the organic market, Tropical Fruit World and Hippocrates Health Center all in one day! How's that?

AND we also had fresh unfrozen durian, unlimited mangosteens and champadek (a tropical fruit that looks like a bring orange jackfruit and is 10x as tasty).

Is that enough to convince you to visit? *smile*

Cheers,
Sheryl

RawTruth

03-13-2006, 06:17 PM

You had me at durian. Considering that I spent part of today in a durian haze (having gorged on 1/2 of one this morning - frozen, though), that alone will get me there.

If I go with Alissa, I'll just stay. But, I don't know if I can wait that long.

You think I'm kidding, huh. Just wait till I knock on your door!

Vandy

03-13-2006, 06:21 PM

Raw Truth~

What you said was beauuuuuutiful and I couldn't agree more...

Way to be encouraging! Lately this forum hasn't been as positive as it used to be, but I think you have just restored its vitality!

I'm with fiddler **Group Hug***

Gosia

03-13-2006, 06:30 PM

No no no, bananas and bad cannot be said in the same sentence!

http://www.rawgosia.com/pictures/00000372.gif

Meteor, relax, eat what you please. Your banana-phase won't last forever. It may well turn into an apple-phase, or grapes-phase. Eat foods you love!

RawTruth

03-13-2006, 07:20 PM

Gosia - read post #81. We're trying to wind down the "discussion" (oh, okay, it's bickering) since it's become so acrimonious. Hmmmm .... I know you've been raw for well over 6 months, though, so ... <hee hee>

Give Meteor time ... and others, too ... they're either really new to actually eating the way they've been researching or they're not yet totally raw. That's when all this uncertainty arises. They'll figure it out. Or ... they'll quit (tragic). Which is why I think it's best to avoid all this micro-examining and arguing -- it turns some people's stomachs to the point where they just give it up.

Which brings me back to -- read post #81.

Then join our on-going group hug.

Awwwwww .... feels great, huh?!

Sheryl

03-13-2006, 07:24 PM

Trust me fresh tree ripened durian is out of this world.. I mean it! Come this time of year if you want fresh though - the season is only going to be about 3 weeks long this year! The closest I can compare it to is the organic D24 durian from Malaysia. There is no comparison to frozen mong thong. I'm sure varieties and taste differe greatly between farms/importers/resellers based on many things. Someone else here saud Mong Thong was better than D24. Who knows.. I just need to try eating durian around the world and see for myself!

Look forward to meeting you with Alissa when she comes to Australia, or before!

Cheers,
Sheryl

Gosia

03-13-2006, 07:27 PM

Ha ha ha, you got me! I tend not to read posts between. I am so busy, I simply have no time for that (and I still like to answer the question asked in the main post). Was there some bickering in between there? I have not read that.

Anyway, I love bananas.

RawTruth

03-13-2006, 07:40 PM

I tend not to read posts between.Smart lady.

I am so busy, I simply have no time for that Great self-control and what a good role model staying away from the computer!

Anyway, I love bananas.Ya think?!?!?! ha ha ha ha

greeninlosangeles

03-13-2006, 09:09 PM

Raw Truth, how many years all raw are you?

RawTruth

03-14-2006, 03:38 AM

Going on 1-1/2 years.

rawpriestess

03-14-2006, 04:12 AM

Alissa says not to worry about counting calories or carbs or fats or grams or anything like that.

She states eat raw, as much as you want, IN THE BEGINNING, then after you've been raw a while, if you really want to , then you can start to limit things, but she says she limits nothing,

she eats what ever she wants, when ever she wants, and it certainly is working for her.

surfergrrl

03-14-2006, 11:38 AM

hey there. . . i was wondering if you knew the website address for gabriel cousins.

i'd like to get more FAQ on his program.

Shivananda

03-14-2006, 01:19 PM

Shivananda, i wish you would be less adamant and a little more considerate in your preachings of what is dietary right and wrong.

Thank you for sharing.

And I wish everyone else would lighten up and giggle more and not take themselves and this discussion so seriously. This is FUN wrestling with differing ideas, not warfare! Where is YOUR sense of humor?

>>consider the possibility you dont know everything, that everything you read is not 100% correct, or at least have some personal experiences to back it up.

Hey, I think I am actually much more aware of that than most people seem to be. I have already died once and been taken up into the white light and given a chance to see how little I know about what's REALLY going on down here and then been sent back to an earthly existence again to make a difference in people's lives and to promote their healing. But now I know that I know a LOT less than I thought I did before.

I do seem to spend a LOT of my time around here debunking pure mind junk that people have read somewhere and just blindly accepted. And I am trying to encourage them to do some real critical thinking and fact checking instead of just trading SADfood sheepism for RAWfood sheepism. I have no fixed view, nor fixed agenda about the one true way to do anything, because I know in my heart and soul that EVERYONE IS UNIQUE. So generalizations that actually empower and guide people are quite hard to come by.

>>this is new territory with a very steep learning curve. many of the so called gurus are making advancements all the time and often their own diet has already much evolved from their published dietary recommendations.

Exactly, but most of them suffer at least partly from the narrow view of their own personal experience. They have a positive experience with pineapple enemas, so they tell everyone to use pineapple enemas. And then people get stuck on that and keep telling others to do pineapple enemas long after the gurus have said "Did I say pineapple enemas? Sorry, I meant pineapple salsas. That pineapple enema thing was just a temporary experiment of mine on the way to pineapple salsas." But people will continue to extoll the virtues of pineapple enemas, on and on and on, just because Swami Fruitloopa once said so.

>>just the fact youve been a yo-yo and unable to maintain the diet for any serious length of time should have you searching for some better answers and weaken your opinions until you can speak from some personal experience.

Whoooaaa... and you think >>I<< need to be more considerate? I find that to be an obnoxious overreading and total misstatement of what I've posted here. And worse, the scolding emails I've gotten from a couple of other overly emotional users here who agree with your stance have been discouraging. You'd think my opinions were criminal, just because I don't agree with THEIR opinions. Oyoyoyoyoyyyyyyy... You should see how rigid their thinking is, and how judgmental they are that I don't agree with their position. Geez, people, it's just a DISCUSSION. Can you get that? Chew on ALL of this and check things out thoroughly and make up your own minds about things. That's certainly what I intend to do. And I absolutely encourage you to do the same.

>>i only bring this to your attention is because you sound exactly like i used to. i read all the books, probably the same as you, and could regurgitate any of them at will. the word youre spreading ...

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, wait, hold on there... the word I'm spreading? And what word is that? Tell me. Really, I'd like to know. Sounds like you've already jammed me into a box and dismissed what I have said because that particular box is not officially approved in your universe. Listen, I am a champion for open discussion and authentic critical thinking. I'm not driving any agenda, I'm on a path of exploration, and I love to mix it up with others and see what makes it through the heat of the crucible. But geez, it's not PERSONAL! So why make it personal?

>>...will not work for, most, people in the long run of one or two years. ive seen it unsuccessful more times than successful, including my personal experience. so we evolve.

OK, well let's just check this particular judgment of yours out. As I have posted many ways, in many places here, at the present moment I think Alissa's approach is the most practical and useful because it is fun and not at all dogmatic, and people seem to have high rates of success when they follow it. And that is a very refreshing change for me from the cranky dogmatic approach of so many others I have run into along the way. If anything, that's the word I am spreading. So you are saying that her approach, which I clearly support, will not work over a period of one or two years? Then what are you doing here?

>>by the way, i eat 20 bananas (or mangos, or equivalent) per day everyday, and thriving

Fine, if that works for you, keep doing it, with my blessings. Truly. But at the moment I believe Dr. Cousens is correct, with his research with a large number of people, that this style of high-glycemic diet will cause serious problems for most people who attempt it. His detached scientific approach, involving many people over a long time span, is for more compelling and far more convincing to me than the personal experiences of a single other individual, no matter how well meaning that person may be. What's more, my personal experience resonates completely with his view, and not at all with yours. But I'm very clear that that is just what is working for me, here and now, as far as I can tell, so I'm willing to abandon it all and do something else if circumstances seem to warrant it.

"The true critical thinker accepts what few people ever accept -- that one cannot routinely trust perceptions and memories." --James Alcock, "The Belief Engine"

And that last point, dear folks, is at the heart of my criticism of all the anecdotal stuff that gets posted in these forums as "the truth." It's just someone's perceptions, and perceptions are malleable and ultimately unreliable compared to independently verifiable facts.

Shivananda

03-14-2006, 01:45 PM

Give up fear of debate and conflict, accepting that the organic clash of differing ideas is healthy and enlivening and ultimately revealing of the truth.

Give up assessments that someone who is "new" can't possibly know as much as someone who is "old." Sometimes the exact opposite is true. It's not necessarioly a linear process.

Give up trying to close down a conversation that still has life in it because it seems out of control TO YOU.

Give up thinking passionate disagreement is the same as acrimony. Look for the cosmic joke in everything.

Give up thinking something is wrong just because someone else doesn't express themselves in the manner or timing you are most comfortable with.

Then come back here and tell the whole group the most embarassing thing that ever happened to you concerning food. With spinach in your teeth.

There, that ought to lighten things up a little around here. :D

RawTruth

03-14-2006, 03:09 PM

hey there. . . i was wondering if you knew the website address for gabriel cousins.

i'd like to get more FAQ on his program.Here ya go:

http://www.treeoflife.nu/index.html

vegChuck

03-15-2006, 03:34 AM

Regarding Cousins advice not to eat bananas because they will play havoc with your sugar metabolism because they have an high glycemic index allow me to say that it's not true that bananas or sweet fruits generally cause sugar problems.

First of all it's not true that there's no difference between pure white sugar and fruit sugar, fruit sugar will almost never cause a sugar spike because of the high content of fiber which slow down sugar absorption. That's why you get an higher sugar spike from refined grains than whole grain even if they contain the same carbohydrates. That's why you get an higher sugar spike from orange juice than whole oranges.

But the glycemic index says that you should get a major sugar and worst of all insulin spike by eating bananas. Well, I'm sorry for all the diabetics that have been misled by this naive reasoning but the glycemic index in itsels is useless and doesn't predict anything.

Before the glycemic index can say anything we must pay attention to the glycemic load. For example the naive glycemic index reasoning would suggest us to stop eating carrots, after all carrots have an high glycemic index between 60 and 90. But carrots have a glycemic load of 1,5 which is 20 to 30 times inferior of those of refined grains, pasta or sweets. Hence you can't get a sugar and insulin spike from eating a carrot.

Bananas has a low glycemic index (30 to 60) and a glycemic load half or 1/4 of those of refined grains. Plus the fiber content and bananas are not very likely to rise blood sugar dangerously or to send someone into hyperglycemia.
One though could still be sugar sensitive, but this is not a condition of diabetics there are sugar sensitives of all kinds. Someone who can eat 20 bananas daily is not sugar sensitive for sure but those bananas, since being sugar sensitive is the only contraindication to massive bananas consumption, are not going to ruin his/her sugar metabolism as they have relatively low glycemic index and a relatively low glycemic load. We're not even near the level of sweets, processed cereals, bread, pasta ...

The most important aspect though is how much of an insulin spike sweet fruits like bananas can cause. If they're borderline for high glycemic index they must induce a bad insulin spike right? Wrong!
Glycemic index is an useless and naive concept if it's not accompained by the Glycemic load. But both are pretty useless in predicting the insulin output of a given food. That requires another index which is the insulin index.

Holt et al Am J Clin Nutr 1997 66:1264-76

The most important finding of the insulin index is that those food that have a low glycemic load and a low glycemic index bring about an high insulin spike. They're talking about those foods that are suggested to diabetics because they won't induce an high insuling response. For example beef makes the body release more insulin than white pasta does. Ice cream with a low GI (yes, low GI) has an higher insulin index than white pasta.

Your activity level is another factor to take into account. Physical exortation improves glucose tolerance and insulin resistance. Exercises consumes the store of glycogen. Post workout there's an high concentration of enzimes that will increase the uptake of sugar from the muscles using the consumed sugar (including fructose that usually would be used to replenish liver stores and not muscle clycogen) this will increase the amount of glut-4 receptors on the surface of the cell membranas as well and in other words the whole body is in a sugar absorption mode which will prevent any sustained sugar spike and will use the sugar to restore the body. This is a very important factor to take into account when we hear of people who get spacey after eating one banana and people who can eat 20 bananas and feel wonderful afterwards.

Dr Furhman has been mentioning the Pima indians. The ones living in Mexico consume a diet which is high in the glycemix index and it's tipically traditionally mexican and diabetes and obesity are basically unknown among the population. The ones living at the frontier of USA consume a SAD diet which is traditionally american with lot of protein and animal fats and relatively low in the glycemic index. 40% of the population develop diabetes before turning 60. When a Pima family living in the Mexico move to the Pima area near the USA their diet changes they consume less high glycemic index food and more fatty animal foods and they develop the same problems that were unknown to them till they consumed their high GI diet.
So much for the glycemic index

Gatherer societies like the almost vegan Kalahari Bushmen consume an high amount of sweet and fresh fruits. Their diet is surprise surprise both high in fat, as the mongongo nuts are a staple for them, and fruits of which they consume almost 30 oz daily. Of course no member of the Kalahari Bushmen has ever known or developed diabetes and they are as fit as it gets.

Bottom line: distrust any book, program or expert that bases his/her suggestions, especially for diabetics, on the glycemic index choosing which foods are healthy and which are to avoid according to how high their glycemic index is.

Just my two cents

Chuck

marigold

03-15-2006, 06:43 AM

shiv - all your mails are some of the best ive seen on here for a long time..good on ya for speaking out..i agree reluctantly i have to say that fruit isnt all its cracked up to be..for someone who eats a lot of fruit thats no small thing for me to say..but having listened to a lot of people lately( and a lot of people are saying this) its not looking good for fruit..brian clements says a smoothie has as much suger as angel cake! and calls it recreational food...soil isnt good, fruit often has zilch vitamins in anymore and unripe all leads to high suger..which yes is addictaive..i know at first i just didnt want to hear this but i have opened up and am exploring other ways of eating..

i feel its ok to say do whatever in the beginning but i found its easy to get stuck there and not move on,,,its easy to say if its working but can any of us afford to take a risk of it not working 30 or so years from now.

now you may not agree - (heck i dont even know if i do) and thats ok of course but i would urge anyone who is eating lots of fruit to at least look inside yourself and ask what is my resistance here...

namaste
love marigold

vegChuck

03-15-2006, 07:21 AM

When you make smoothies with fruits you liquefy the fibers and speed up the sugar absorption. If your smoothie contains fats from nuts or greens the absorption is actually decreased. Sugar from smoothies would be absorbed less quickly than sugar from juices.

Sugar is sugar is sugar and white sugar is a mix of sucrose and fructose fruit sugar is too a mix of sucrose and fructose. So we're told our body can't tell the difference between two tablespoons of white sugar and 2 bananas. Not true
The difference is how quickly the sugar is absorbed hence how quickly it raises blood sugar and insulin output hence how quickly it causes a sugar peak forcing the body to release excessive insulin so that too much sugar is sent to the cell membranas and not enough is left for the brain hence causing hypoglycemia and the quick need for readily available sugar putting the cycle in motion again and again resulting in sugar level yo-yo and all the problems that theis means: candida, insulin resistance, hypertriglyceridemia and so on.

Fruits have a series of characteristics that doesn't make them suited to cause this mess.

Let's see how fruits becomes a theoretic sugarpoison bomb and what's the truth instead:

*
Fruits are loaded with sugar hence when you eat them it is as if you were eating pure sugar

FACT: fruits have such an high fiber content that the sugar in them is absorbed slowly when they're eaten and the true problems with sugars is how quickly they're absorbed. They play havoc with the sugar and lipid metabolism when they're absorbed quickly and this happens only with refined sugars or refined high carb foods devoid of fibers

but fruits have a very high glycemic index and hence they raise blood sugar too quickly and high glycemic index diets are dangerous

FACT 1: almost all fruits are low or relatively low in the glycemic index with just few exceptions like raising and dates.
FACT 2: even if fruits were high in the glycemic index that would be irrelevant since the glycemic index by itself is an useless information. A food with an high glycemic index need also an high glycemic load to raise blood sugar quickly. Most plants with an high GI have a very low GL and most plants with a moderate GI have also a very moderate GL. Indirect evidences prove that people who are developing diabetes are not consuming an exceptionally high glycemic index diet. On the other hand people who are consuming very high glycemic index diets (potatoes and rice) like the Pima indians are not developing diabetes, genetically and physiologically factors have been taken into account in face as they change their diet they develop the diseases associated with that diet.

Okay, but still there are three or four fruits among hundreds that have a almost high GI and an almost high GL if I eat them they will spike my insulin and I would get hyperglycemia first and hypoglycemia later

FACT: even GI an GL together are not that good at predicting the insulin output caused by a given food. Foods that score high in the GI and GL have been found to score relatively low in the insulin index. Food that score low in the GI and GL (think of fish or beef) score quite high in the insulin index. So even foods that don't contain any trace of sugar in them can raise my insul levels? Yes, they do. Insulin is released both when high carbohydraites foods are eaten, when high protein foods are eaten and when moderate carb and fat foods are eaten.

Sugars are still toxic, too sweet and ... did you understand that I don't have the slightest idea why I'm critizing sugar?

FACT: simple carbohydrates are not toxic or bad per se, if they're used as a source of energy or to replenish muscolar glycogen stores they're just another macronutrient utilized by the body. Not to mention that certain fruits are both simple and complex carbohydrates. Simple carbohydrates are bad when they play havoc with your sugar metabolism hence when they skyrocket your sugar and insulin levels. The sugar of fruit doesn't do this to people who are not sugar sensitive or who are active. The sugar of an angel cake does this to everyone instead, that's the difference.

Chuck

Shivananda

03-15-2006, 07:39 AM

Thanks Marigold, I appreciate the support. Not everyone seems to agree with your assessment of my posts, but at least the lynching party seems to have been postponed. :)

Actually, when you look at possible sugar binging with raw food and juices, you also need to take a look at ALL the high glycemic fruits like mangos and papayas and melons and dates plus most dried fruit, not just bananas. I mean, dried papaya is as sugary as gum drops!

But there are fruits that have moderate to low glycemic levels, which, according to Cousens and others can be eaten more freely.

Moderate glycemic foods include apples, pears, peaches, carrots, pears, plums

Low glycemic foods include strawberries, cranberries, blueberries, cherries, lemons, limes, grapefruit (And of course blueberries are now highly touted for their anti-oxident properties too)

Interesting sidebar on this issue is the difference between raw parsnips, beets, rutabaga, hard squash, and pumpkin vs the same foods cooked. Raw, they are moderate glycemic foods. Cooked, they are high glycemic. So while a dish of cooked parsnips would send my blood sugar level soaring, a similar sized serving of raw parsnip "mashed potatoes" does not. I know. I've checked it.

vegChuck

03-15-2006, 07:55 AM

Where are oranges?
Oranges score between 30 and 50 in the GI index and anything below 56 is low.
The sugar content means very little, the GI means very little and still the GI and GL together can't predict the insulin response of many foods.

A better way to predict the suagr levels response caused by eating a certain food is
fiber content + sugar content
glycemic index + glycemic load
GI-GL + Insulin Index

All those factors that are used by some to condemn or suggest certain foods need to be related to something else to provide any meaningful informatin.

But it seems that those naive glycemic index fans don't even know when a food is low in the glycemic index to begin with. The funniest thing of all is that the "authority" saying that to focus on the glycemic by itself to make nutrition advices is wrong and misleading is the author of the glycemic index itself.

Davide

Shivananda

03-15-2006, 07:56 AM

Hey vegChuck, one question... have you checked out how this theory actually works in your body, using a blood glucose meter? Or better yet, with long term insulin testing and bloodwork?

I have. And for me, at least the way my body works right now, Gabriel Cousens, MD proves to be right on the money, and your theory shows up as wishful nonsense.

I am perfectly willing, truly, to consider that what you said might be valid for you, but unless you've actually verified the information, how do you know?

And where, by the way, did your information come from? I've already said where mine came from... Cousens' "Rainbow Green Live Cuisine," "Conscious Eating," etc.

vegChuck

03-15-2006, 09:10 AM

Hey vegChuck, one question... have you checked out how this theory actually works in your body, using a blood glucose meter? Or better yet, with long term insulin testing and bloodwork?

I didn't tried it on myself with blood glucose meter but I have with long term bloodworks and HbA1c levels which as you know is a more faithful test than fasting or postprandial insulin and glycemia
Of course the studies of the glycemic load, insulin index and satiety index did checked the subjects with a glucose meter.

You mentioned critical thinking and I think that critical thinking doesn't allow anecdotal data. I'm glad what Cousens is saying works for you but you are one single person but Cousens ideas are presented as absolute truths.

As I said the author himself of the glycemic index doesn't agree it provide meaningful informations when it is not accompained by the glycemic load or the fiber content of the food. Even so it can't predict the insulin response.

There are hundreds of fruits and thousands of foods in the GI list, have you checked them all? You maybe sugar sensitive and Cousense may be sugar sensitive too which would explain such reaction to fruits even when they have a low glycemic index and a low glycemic load a low insulin index and an high fiber content.

I am perfectly willing, truly, to consider that what you said might be valid for you, but unless you've actually verified the information, how do you know?

But wait, you're willing to consider the glycemic index might be valid as you know its author have made several experiments using several subjects, but you're not willing to consider the glycemic index might not be valid when not correlated to other factors even if the same author who have done the same amount of experiments on its subjects says so?

And where, by the way, did your information come from? I've already said where mine came from... Cousens' "Rainbow Green Live Cuisine," "Conscious Eating," etc.

I've provided the reference of a study of the glycemic index author which sums up the research on glycemic load, satiety index and insuling index. There are more studies about the GL and the IS of course but this one sums it up it all pretty well and I've referred to Dr Furhman "Eat to Live" book for information on the Pima indians. Circulation, 106: 2530, 2002 or any James Barnard study on the effect of an high glycemix index diet on diabete and hypo/hyperinsulinemia (which again don't prove that the GI is irrelevant but that doesn't provide truthful information about the effect of foods when not accompained by other scores which, so Barnard for example found out that foods that appear dangerous and forbidden for diabetics by GI alone have actually a positive/neutral effect and the GI itself was able to predict this when associated with GL, IS and fiber content) and also Dr James Kenney CPE course on diabetes "Diet to prevent and reserve insulin resistance and diabetes" (this is 350 pages) and would refer to Weimer Institute for a detailed and Glycemic Index, Glycemic Load and Insulin Index charts with GI, GL and IS of foods by their country.

It's true, that's not much I could provide more references especially of the studies of the glycemic load and sugar absorption by fiber content but honestly I withdrew from more than a year of daily posting on Dr Graham board because reading, posting, replying and looking for references was becoming addictive and I needed to devote more time to my friends and my siblings.

Don't get me wrong, if what you're doing is working for you that's great and I'm glad you can be healthy, feel good and enjoy life. I would say that even if you were eating cardboard and that would be healing your health problems. As for Cousens suggestions I still, since they're made according this characteristic of food consumption called glycemic index, believe that as much as he believed the author when he created this GI he should take into account the author further studies and claims that the GI alone doesn't provide any faithful information about the effect of those foods. Nonetheless I think that for a sugar sensitive individual Cousens approach is correct.

Chuck

Revvell

03-15-2006, 09:16 AM

divaitalia

03-15-2006, 09:30 AM

WOW!!!! What a thread. I have gotten over a few huge laughs out of this because of all the bickering about everyone's opinions. And people, that is what they are really, OPINIONS!!!!!

What works for one doesn't work for all and let's get a little more light hearted and not so protective about what we think is right or wrong. I love to read everyone's comments, and do have a certain amount of respect for the one's who have done it longer and have been on this website longer than most. I do have one question for VEGCHUCK-you are obviously new to this site coming in as a seedling, so I have to inquire about your experience on all this that you write so scientifically? Just a question that doesn't need to warrant any kind of hostile or opinionated response please.

Loving all of this so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Divaitalia

jujube

03-15-2006, 11:38 AM

This is my first post here, though I've been reading the board for a while. I'd like to offer my thoughts and experiences on fruit...

I have been raw (95-100%) for 3 years. That by no means makes me an expert, but I do feel I'm past the newbie stage, and have learned a lot through my own experience and by watching what other raw foodists have gone through over the years.

When I first went raw, I attempted a high-fruit diet. At the time, it was a disaster... I had blood sugar swings and felt hypoglycemic all the time, and I had to pee a lot, and my teeth hurt. I stuck with it for about two months and then said NO MORE!

However, I was doing many many things wrong. I was eating a lot of nuts with the fruit, and I barely ate any greens, I didn't exercise much. Still, I blamed the fruit for my problems and switched to a low-glycemic diet, phase 1 of Rainbow Green Live Food Cuisine, which had just recently been published (this was back in 2003).

I should also mention, all this was before Living on Live Food came out. Back then, there was NO ONE was saying it's okay to eat anything as long as it's raw... everyone was saying "you must follow someone's plan!" whether it be Doug Graham's, Cousens', the sunfood triangle, etc. If Alissa's book had been out, I probably would have followed that. In retrospect I think it's best NOT to limit certain foods in the very beginning of raw... that way YOU can find the combination of foods that works best for you, rather than blindly follow what someone else decides is best...

Sorry, I digress. :)

So I stuck with a low fruit diet for around a year. I ate berries and green apples sometimes, but almost no other sweet fruit... I ate lots of fat in the form of nuts, seeds, oils, and coconut. And I did okay with that for the first year. I took a lot of supplements though, and always felt like something was kinda missing, because I felt GOOD but not GREAT. But at the time I really believed a low-sugar diet was best and that fruit was just as bad as candy.

Around the one-year mark, though, something happened. My body started TOTALLY rejecting fat. I started getting acne every time I ate nuts, and oils began making me nauseous... I got pains around my gallbladder... I truly felt awful. I tried more supplements, I tried fasting, I tried all the cleanses that have ever been invented. Nothing worked! I believed raw was the way to go, but I was sooooo close to going back to cooked food because I was so miserable and felt constantly sick..

After talking to other raw foodists who'd been raw longer than me, I decided to do a 180 and try high fruit again. I had been craving fruit for a looong time and thought it was just sugar addiction :rolleyes: so I didn't pay attention to my instincts.

Well, lo and behold... the second time around, high fruit made me feel fabulous. I can only guess that being raw for a year had cleaned me out enough so that I could suddenly handle fruit. To make a long story short, I've been eating high fruit/high greens and low fat for 2 years now and I have never felt so amazing. I do not have ANY hypoglycemia problems anymore, as long as I eat plenty of greens, and my energy is through the roof!! I love to exercise now, too, which I think is extremely important... you MUST create a physical need for glucose, or else eating fruit WILL give you problems... humans are designed to be active creatures. Sedentary lifestyle + fruit = disaster.

I have met a number of long-term raw foodists over the years, as well as lots of newbies and people who keep falling off the wagon... and this has been what I've observed. I have only met one person who was able to sustain Gabriel Cousens' diet for more than a year. I'd say at least 80% of the raw foodists I've met who've been eating raw 3+ years, eat a high fruit diet. The people who look the healthiest IMO are the ones who eat lots of fruit, TONS of greens, and not much fat. (But it's important to note, they didn't start eating like that right from the get go... they evolved into that type of diet by listening to their body's signals over time.)

Those are just my experiences and observations. I hope they help someone out there. Now, I am a BIG believer in fruit (plus greens!) and I don't think a low-fruit diet is very good in the long term.

For those of you who have trouble with fruit right now, I urge you to keep listening to your bodies, and keep in mind that you might have a different reaction to fruit in the future. I think lots of people have really messed up sugar metabolisms from years of SAD... but that will sort itself out if you keep eating raw.

Sorry that was so long. Thanks for listening :)

vegChuck

03-15-2006, 11:39 AM

I hate to talk about myself, maybe you should ask that to Jack the Rawguy, Janie, Wook, Julie, Justin Lelia, Yoga_Nurse, Spirit, Rick, Snapdragon, Tanawana, Randall Phelps, Steve, Jesse, BrendaT, Trinity, Ricthuse, JustMe, M'isa, Atheria, Shelby, Faith, Karen S, Big G, Sharon, LisainNC, Trish, Duane, Mark, Theresa, Konemann, Ivy, Lovey, Skywalker, C. Dove, Amber, Rebecca, Sprouts, Groundhog, Tom, Jeremiah, AL2015 ... ;)

(good friends, I get so nostalgic just thinking about you)

Chuck

misslinda

03-15-2006, 11:51 AM

A better way to predict the suagr levels response caused by eating a certain food is
fiber content + sugar content
glycemic index + glycemic load
GI-GL + Insulin Index

I LOVE THIS FOR FORMULA !!!!!!!!! but can I add....

would it be correct to say that a person's current health, how they CHEW,pancreas and enzyme response effects how it assimilates these [sugars]????? ;)

You all are making this thread very interesting :)

RawTruth

03-15-2006, 11:53 AM

jujube

03-15-2006, 11:55 AM

vegChuck, are you the Chuck who used to post on the Vegsource board? I used to read that board a lot, I remember your posts! Do you eat Doug Graham's diet? How come you don't post there anymore?

JMD

03-15-2006, 12:03 PM

Great addition, Jujube.

You come from a place of research, observation, experience, and time. Oh, did I mention humility?

Thanks for your contribution.

I had to LAUGH out loud--I agree!!!Rawtruth~~ finally someone with humility and EXPERIENCE!!!

Jujube--I respect your post because IT CAME FROM EXPERIENCE and not preaching!!! I wish others would follow your lead.....:)It is not about being right it is about being at PEACE!!! Isn't Alissa's point to JUST BE RAW find what works for EACH BODY....???

Congrats to you Rawtruth and Jujube for saying what I wanted to :)
JMD

RawTruth

03-15-2006, 12:12 PM

Congrats to you Rawtruth and Jujube for saying what I wanted to :)
JMDHey - I take the flak so you don't have to. Ha! Maybe I should make up some bumper stickers!

JMD

03-15-2006, 12:49 PM

Hey - I take the flak so you don't have to. Ha! Maybe I should make up some bumper stickers!

YES I'd buy one but i would put it in my classroom!! What would it say???

JMD

RawTruth

03-15-2006, 12:56 PM

I was referring to my quip:

"I take the flak, so you don't have to"

A raw bumper sticker would be great in a classroom, though!

JMD

03-15-2006, 01:18 PM

Good point:) Not to get OFF topic anymore BUT i do leave daily quotes for these pre-teens to ponder on and they get team points for eating raw fruits and veggies for snacktime:)

I WISH more parents knew about nutrition and the benefits on their child's education it would have.....

:)Maybe I can bring a blender and make green smoothies.....

jaurequi

03-15-2006, 01:51 PM

Gosia

03-15-2006, 04:16 PM

Ho ho ho, this is turning into an interesting discussion. I want to join in too!

Please, please, please, do not ever think that fruit is bad for you. Fruit is the ideal food for us. Sweet? Of course it is sweet, this is how it's should be (carbohydrates mmm mmmm mmm)!

The arguments? Well, they can be theoretical and those based on experience. Based on my own experience, I find that I feel fantastic on fruit. Fruit keeps me feeling satisfied and hydrated. If I do not have fruit, I feel hungry and de-hydrated. My son, when he was a baby, looooved bananas, and I wish I got a hint from him. My 5 year old daughter demands fruit on daily bases, and she absolutely adores mangoes. A meal of mango will satisfy her like nothing else. Naturally, children's instinct is the best testimony. I see so many times children pleading for fruit in supermarkets with their parents, and I feel like boiling. Common, give your kids some fruit! Steve Carlson, who I have once interviewed, has been raw for about 20 years now. What does he eat? Fruit all day (dense foods in the evening)! Look at the pictures of people who eat lots of fruit, Nora Lenz, Janie from http://www.ringlet.org/, Doug, meet them, talk to them. Do they look sick? No! On the contrary, glowing skin, beautiful smile (sign of health too). In my view, eating fruit is the key to success in raw food diet.

There is plenty of scientific evidence to support the argument that fruit is the ideal food for you. Besides the evidence poiting to the fact that people are frugivorous (incuding the recent DNA evidence that we all came from Africa, where the sweet fruit is abundant), recent large studies have confirmed that eating fruit improves bone density in menopausal women and in growing children. Do you want to have healthy bones and teeth? Eat fruit!

The fact that someone who has been eating some type of raw foods for 30 years says that sweet fruit is bad for you means nothing. I was eating cooked foods for 40 years, and I was not right. I have a PhD and MSc in mathematics, and even this does not guarantee me being right, not even in my area of expertise.

Thanks CHuck for poiting out the high-glycemic nonsense, supported by scientific evidence and common sense. Exactly.

Anyway, I think that the strongest argument is a natural instinct, if one has one. My kids certainly do, and no-one will tell them that fruit is bad for them. They live on fruit! And I am glad.

Gosia.

Vandy

03-15-2006, 07:02 PM

I looove reading this post. It truly proves that everyone is different, and what works for one person may not work for another; however, we are all able to support each other...with disagreements and not...kinda like a family hahaa.

Thanks Gosia and Jujube for posting your experiences!

Sheryl

03-15-2006, 07:09 PM

Let's all keep in mind that everyone's bodies react differently depending on age, health, life experiences. Some may be able to eat things and experience stable blood sugar, whereas someone else may experience blood sugar swings. What works for one never works for all! We're all individuals!

Just something else to think about!
Sheryl

Smoothie

03-15-2006, 08:07 PM

I was formulating what I was going to say and than I got to Rawtruth's response.........and Rawtruth said it perfectly.

You have to stop trying to put raw food into the same paramaters that you did the SAD diet. It's not the same thing.

Stop worrying about starch and sugar and calories and just eat RAW. Do you think all this abundant fresh food was created in nature so early man could debate the merits of high or low startch fruits and veggies?......NO. You just ate what you found that day and your body took care of itself.

In my humble opinion..........unless you're eating 5 lbs of nuts, don't worry about what you eat or that you're eating one too many apples or bananas. As long as you're truly eating raw, moving your body and not cheating, it will all work itself out................:)

P.S.........I just read some more responses I hadn't gotten to yet and you all did a great job..:)

monkeyboy

03-15-2006, 09:00 PM

Hi Everyone,

Just eat whatever you want for Pete's sake. Who's Pete by the way?

Shivanradanabana...however you spell it.

It's time to fess up...are you the famous graphic designer or just a wannabe food writer who flunked out of Swami U.?

Next subject please.

Let the Monkey eat all the bananas.

Peace,

M.B.

misslinda

03-15-2006, 09:27 PM

Shivanradanabana...however you spell it.

Peace,

M.B.

LOL.....I'm sorry but this cracked me up.......reread how you spelled it MB!!!! :p

btw, you violated Alissa's journal policy--no posting in journals. Biggest NO NO. :D LOL.....i do work but it's at my own discretion. it requires alot of researching and printing......something i'm lucky i can do at home :)

Smoothie

03-15-2006, 11:22 PM

vegChuck

03-16-2006, 04:30 PM

vegChuck, are you the Chuck who used to post on the Vegsource board? I used to read that board a lot, I remember your posts! Do you eat Doug Graham's diet? How come you don't post there anymore?

Yes, that's me :)
Posting and debating there even if great was becoming a bit addictive and I needed to devote more time to my friends and siblings. My diet is the same old one: fruits, veggies and nuts and I diverted from that very rarely when I had some hot broth because I was in some cold place forgotten by the sun :D

Chuck

Shivananda

03-17-2006, 08:48 AM

In my humble opinion..........unless you're eating 5 lbs of nuts, don't worry about what you eat or that you're eating one too many apples or bananas. As long as you're truly eating raw, moving your body and not cheating, it will all work itself out................:) Nice theory, but too often I've seen people do eaxactly that.... eat too many bananas and apples and other sweet fruit without anything to balance it... and damage their health in the process. And often lose their teeth in the process. Usually with a lot of accompanying denial about what they are doing. The most unhealthy, truly weird raw foodists I've met along my journey have been fruit crazies.

And as I just journaled this morning... I met an amazing carpenter who has been all raw for 7 years. He used to be 430#, diabetic, and precancerous in colon and prostate, and now he's about 200# and disease free. He agrees with me completely that people who eat nothing but fruit without balancing it with a lot of green vegetables are asking for big trouble. He's seen people get seriously ill eating that way, as I have.

It's not that I think fruit is bad, as someone who obviously doesn't read my posts carefully said about me, or anything like that, but simply that I think that balance is everything.

My breakfast this morning was a really juicy ripe Bartlett pear. Yum!

Guydiane

03-17-2006, 08:58 AM

After reading this, you'll NEVER look at a banana in the same way again!

Bananas Containing three natural sugars - sucrose, fructose and glucose combined with fiber, a banana gives an instant, sustained and substantial boost of energy. Research has proven that just two bananas provide enough energy for a strenuous 90-minute workout. No wonder the banana is the number one fruit with the world's leading athletes. But energy isn't the only way a banana can help us keep fit. It can also help overcome or prevent a substantial number of illnesses and conditions, making it a must to add to our daily diet.

Depression:
According to a recent survey undertaken by MIND amongst people suffering from depression, many felt much better after eating a banana. This is because bananas contain tryptophan, a type of protein that the body converts into serotonin, known to make you relax, improve your mood and generally make you feel happier.

PMS:
Forget the pills -- eat a banana. The vitamin B6 it contains regulates blood glucose levels, which can affect your mood.

Anemia:
High in iron, bananas can stimulate the production of hemoglobin in the blood and so helps in cases of anemia.

Blood Pressure:
This unique tropical fruit is extremely high in potassium yet low in salt, making it the perfect way to beat blood pressure. So much so, the US Food and Drug Administration has just allowed the banana industry to make official claims for the fruit's ability to reduce the risk of blood pressure and stroke.

Brain Power:
200 students at a Twickenham (Middlesex) school were helped through their exams this year by eating bananas at breakfast, break, and lunch in a bid to boost their brain power. Research has shown that the potassium-packed fruit can assist learning by making pupils more alert.

Constipation:
High in fiber, including bananas in the diet can help restore normal bowel action, helping to overcome the problem without resorting to laxatives.

Hangovers:
One of the quickest ways of curing a hangover is to make a banana milkshake, sweetened with honey. The banana calms the stomach and, with the help of the honey, builds up depleted blood sugar levels, while the milk soothes and re-hydrates your system.

Heartburn:
Bananas have a natural antacid effect in the body, so if you suffer from heartburn, try eating a banana for soothing relief.

Morning Sickness:
Snacking on bananas between meals helps to keep blood sugar levels up and avoid morning sickness.

Mosquito bites:
Before reaching for the insect bite cream, try rubbing the affected area with the inside of a banana skin. Many people find it amazingly successful at reducing swelling and irritation.

Nerves:
Bananas are high in B vitamins that help calm the nervous system.

Overweight and at work?
Studies at the Institute of Psychology in Austria found pressure at work leads to gorging on comfort food like chocolate and chips. Looking at 5,000 hospital patients, researchers found the most obese were more likely to be in high-pressure jobs. The report concluded that, to avoid panic-induced food cravings, we need to control our blood sugar levels by snacking on high carbohydrate foods every two hours to keep levels steady.

Ulcers:
The banana is used as the dietary food against intestinal disorders because of its soft texture and smoothness. It is the only raw fruit that can be eaten without distress in over-chronicler cases. It also neutralizes over-acidity and reduces irritation by coating the lining of the stomach.

Temperature control:
Many other cultures see bananas as a "cooling" fruit that can lower both the physical and emotional temperature of expectant mothers. In Thailand, for example, pregnant women eat bananas to ensure their baby is born with a cool temperature.

Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD):
Bananas can help SAD sufferers because they contain the natural mood enhancer tryptophan.

Smoking:
Bananas can also help people trying to give up smoking. The B6, B12 they contain, as well as the potassium and magnesium found in them, help the body recover from the effects of nicotine withdrawal.

Stress:
Potassium is a vital mineral, which helps normalize the heartbeat, sends oxygen to the brain and regulates your body's water balance. When we are stressed, our metabolic rate rises, thereby reducing our potassium levels. These can be rebalanced with the help of a high-potassium banana snack.

Strokes:
According to research in "The New England Journal of Medicine," eating bananas as part of a regular diet can cut the risk of death by strokes by as much as 40%!

So, a banana really is a natural remedy for many ills. When you compare it to an apple, it has four times the protein, twice the carbohydrates, three times the phosphorus, five times the vitamin A and iron, and twice the other vitamins and minerals. It is also rich in potassium and is one of the best value foods around. So maybe its time to change that well-known phrase so that we say, "A banana a day keeps the doctor away!"

PASS IT ON TO YOUR FRIENDS

vegChuck

03-17-2006, 03:26 PM

Nice theory, but too often I've seen people do eaxactly that.... eat too many bananas and apples and other sweet fruit without anything to balance it... and damage their health in the process. And often lose their teeth in the process. Usually with a lot of accompanying denial about what they are doing. The most unhealthy, truly weird raw foodists I've met along my journey have been fruit crazies.

And as I just journaled this morning... I met an amazing carpenter who has been all raw for 7 years. He used to be 430#, diabetic, and precancerous in colon and prostate, and now he's about 200# and disease free. He agrees with me completely that people who eat nothing but fruit without balancing it with a lot of green vegetables are asking for big trouble. He's seen people get seriously ill eating that way, as I have.

Everyone agree about this. The difference is saying that to eat lot of fruits is unhealthy per se or saying that if you eat lot of fruit you're going to undereat the vital greens or avoid any overt far from nuts.
But even if someone eats 15 bananas there is still lot of room for greens and nuts. I agree with those who have said not to worry and trust your instinct.
People force themselves to eat things they don't crave because they think they know it is good for their body but their body doesn't know. By doing this they never give the body a chance to instinctively signals what food it needs.
Many rawfoodists may not crave any green, may be disgusted by the taste of baby lettuce but if they eat nothing but sweet fruits for a long period of time their body will crave eventually greens and nuts and they will suddenly love what they have always hated.
I don't believe that our instinct can let us ignore all those foods that we require and while it's true that people instinct let them crave for unhealthy junk food we must remember that food contain opioids and destroy our instinctive taste and cravings. But since we're talking about people who eat natural foods we may realize that finally our instinct can prove to know more than whatever encyclopedia or doctor. Raw food diets and eating a natural diet should also mean this, trust our body and trust our instinct.

Chuck

Shivananda

03-17-2006, 07:30 PM

Many rawfoodists may not crave any green, may be disgusted by the taste of baby lettuce but if they eat nothing but sweet fruits for a long period of time their body will crave eventually greens and nuts and they will suddenly love what they have always hated.

At a glance I think I agree with most of what you wrote, but I disagree strongly with this particular statement because I've personally seen many examples in real people's lives which contradict it. I've spoken with people people who jumped into raw food via the simple route because they "heard it was great, man," and they just eat a lot of fruit with no real info, and get hooked on all the sugar and the ease of shopping and food prep and the wide availability of fresh fruit at bodegas and sidewalk stands and convenience stores, and never really get beyond that level of understanding until their pancreas explodes, or something else dire happens to them. Their supposed "natural instincts" to balance their diets never come to the fore. Maybe they would, eventually, out in the wild, but in the big city those instincts are outshouted by 100 other things that are going on at the same time.

In particular I'm thinking of raw food bike messengers and cyclists in NYC I used to see everywhere, and to a lesser degree in Boston, as one example, who easily number in the hundreds, if not thousands. They burn lots of calories per day, and the sugar rush from their all fruit diets fits their manic daily ride, and it's ever so much easier to just grab a banana at the corner than to carry any food with you, etc. Some of those folks are truly, truly pathetic and deluded, clueless that there is even a concept of balance. Or so it seems. These are the ones Cousens was talking about when he said to "go light on fruits at the beginning."

But the "career" fruitarians are worse. They are the ones who religiously believe, and tell you at the drop of an apple that you need eat NOTHING but fruit, and that greens are for bunnies. You wouldn't want to run into some of them late at night at an organic produce counter, mumbling to themselves as they squeeze the mangos, because they might just hypnotize you with those haunted dark sunken undead eyes and suck the life force right out of you. Aiyeeeee.

My point is that people have wildly differing levels of consciousness and information about all this, so it's very hard to generalize anything except that "too much of a good thing is not good." Telling people they need a balance of greens and fruits is more supportive in the long run than just saying "fruits are good for you."

misslinda

03-17-2006, 11:02 PM

You wouldn't want to run into some of them late at night at an organic produce counter, mumbling to themselves as they squeeze the mangos, because they might just hypnotize you with those haunted dark sunken undead eyes and suck the life force right out of you. Aiyeeeee.

okay, yur killin me Shiva daddy :p I was starting to yawn, now I can't stop laughing. :D

vegChuck

03-18-2006, 02:49 AM

At a glance I think I agree with most of what you wrote, but I disagree strongly with this particular statement because I've personally seen many examples in real people's lives which contradict it. I've spoken with people people who jumped into raw food via the simple route because they "heard it was great, man," and they just eat a lot of fruit with no real info, and get hooked on all the sugar and the ease of shopping and food prep and the wide availability of fresh fruit at bodegas and sidewalk stands and convenience stores, and never really get beyond that level of understanding until their pancreas explodes, or something else dire happens to them. Their supposed "natural instincts" to balance their diets never come to the fore. Maybe they would, eventually, out in the wild, but in the big city those instincts are outshouted by 100 other things that are going on at the same time.

You have a point but allow me to give more credit to our instinct.
It's true: there are people who ruined their health consuming the diet you described and it seems their instinct has never worked their whole time. But I don't believe that's true, I think that actually they ignored their instinct to focus on their ideology. This reminds me of Ehret and his followers. He suggested a peculiar diet: eat just fruit, eat only certain fruits eat few fruits.
His daily diet could have been 4 apples and 2 orange and he was very emaciated. His followers did have cravings for greens, nuts someone even told me the smell of grass in the park made their mouth watery, but they ignore all of those instinctive signals because they had an ideology to follow. That's what Patenaude did too, he was sick and was eating dozens of avocado daily as they were suggesting at Nature First Law. He had cravings for other natural foods, he wanted to eat more greens less super food, his body was telling him what to do but the ideology was stronger and those signals were ignored.
That's what happens with those people that could eat nothing but dates for an year claiming they never crave other fruits, greens or some nuts, when they're in season; they lie ... they have those craving, they have a body that tells them "please, put something else in me would you?" but if the guru said "humans are date eaters and have been created by the god of dates to eat nothing but dates" they will ignore their body and will be even willing to die to defend their ideology.
For those who are obsessed with their ideology there nothing you can do and it won't make a difference if you say them to balance, to do this or do that ... it's their life after all. For those who think it's more important to eat a natural diet than to follow a rigid ideology I'm sure their body will tell them anything they need to know about the correct amount, foods and balance of elements. Bottom line: the body had not fault, the fault is of those who don't listen and turn a deaf ear.

Chuck

eatyourbroccoli

03-18-2006, 06:20 AM

I eat alot of bananas mainly because they are a cheap fruit to buy organic,I we dont have alot of money at this time in our lifes.I love fruit thiugh so much i could eat only fruit all day everyday if my body would allow me to.Does anyone here have hypoglycemia? It seems to give me problems when i eat all raw.

ok so maybe i'm just stupid..

but i was actually wondering about this because i'm hypoglycemic and everytime i eat a bunch of fruit i start feeling like my body is on speed or amphetamines or something (what i guess it would feel like on those, anyway)

heart palpitations, jittery feeling..

and now that i think about it, it would make sense..since im sure the large amount of sugar i ingest causes a great surge of insulin which in turn causes a large release of adrenaline and bada boom bada bing i feel like a drug-addict that hasnt slept in a week :p

thank you for that comment. youve inspired a great epiphany! lol :D

OH ps

i sometimes eat upwards of 5 bananas a day. USUALLY only when im working out at a decently intense rate. and ive never experienced any negative side effects :) (aside from occasionally the one stated above..but that seems to occur more often with dates)

-ashton

Shivananda

03-18-2006, 06:52 AM

Bottom line: the body had not fault, the fault is of those who don't listen and turn a deaf ear. Thuhhh dahhhhh. On this we agree, yes.

Thanks for sticking with me on this, Chuck. It's been a useful discussion for me, and hopefully for others, even if we did manage to scare the dogs and some of the children.

Funny thing, as weird and scientifically ungrounded as Ehret's Mucusless Diet seems to me, an acquaintance actually handed me a copy of this book a few days ago and said "Here, read this. This book saved my life!" Which I think is terrific, because this person is a great guy, and I'm glad he found something that works for him.

Which brings me around to my last point, which is that somebody is making money off the current sales of this book, and it isn't Ehret, who died the better part of a hundred years ago, after slipping on the street while wearing new shoes and hitting his head on a rock. And I'm OK with someone selling his book today, but I do think self help medical books and diet books like this should all carry the following warning, printed in big red letters across both covers and at the top and bottom bottom of every page -

CAUTION: THIS MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU!

jaurequi

03-18-2006, 08:56 AM

...everytime i eat a bunch of fruit i start feeling like my body is on speed or amphetamines or something (what i guess it would feel like on those, anyway)

heart palpitations, jittery feeling..

and now that i think about it, it would make sense..since im sure the large amount of sugar i ingest causes a great surge of insulin which in turn causes a large release of adrenaline and bada boom bada bing i feel like a drug-addict that hasnt slept in a week :p...

eatyourbroccoli,

This used to happen to me too! Strange thing is it was happening for a long time before I made the connection :rolleyes: Makes ya feel dense sometimes.
I was following the No-added fat raw diet which is 80% fruit. It would alarm me that my heart would sort of "thump" really hard every so often. So it wasn't a continuous irregular beat; it was more like one big thump every 20-or-so regular beats. It would happen right after a large fruit meal. And to be fair, when I write, "large" fruit meal, I mean LARGE :). But, it was probably equivalent to the sugar in a lot of dates eaten alone like you wrote.
I actually went to the doctor because I started to believe that I may have a heart problem. He said my heart was fine, but suggested some things, one being sugar overload. It only then hit me that it was right after or during a fruit meal that this occured. I never thought of myself as consuming "sugar" because I never consumed any type of sweetener (at that time), not even juices, no dried fruit. I only ate whole fruit. I don't think most people eat as much as I can of fruit in one sitting; but everyone has a unique sensitivity to amounts.
When I added fat to my diet I began to feel much better; but the fruit meals were still too large. When I added the greens...:D That's what did it. That's the balance I needed.

I still eat a lot of fruit, though; but not nearly as much. We need it for carbohydrates to live. I just don't overdo it.

Also, you can alleviate the sugar rush and crash by combining fruit with greens, as in the green smoothies.

Best,