Toilet/potty training...

[Rawkinlocs]

Wondering what are you guys' view on this particular subject. I know that society has placed an age limit on when a child "should" be weaned from the breast. But they also tend to place an age limit on how soon a child should be using the potty/toilet.

I'm having a time trying to get my 3-year old (just turned 3 in December) to use the seat. My own gut and instinct tells me that he will when he is ready, but I am getting pressure from others who insist that a child his age should definitely be out of diapers. But he protests it so adamently and I don't want this to be a traumatic experience for him.

I'm just interested in getting some feedback from you mom's (and dad's) about how soon your little ones were out of diapers or what your view is on if there is a certain age where they "should" be out of them and any tips or thoughts on how to successfully do this. He is the most challenging of my other 3 children in this area.

Thanks!

OH...and just FYI, I homeschool, so there is no pressure to hurry up due to him starting pre-school or kindergarten, etc.

[Helen Of Tennessee]

Hi Rawkinlocs,

So glad you brought this up. My daughter and I have been talking about this as her son is just 2 1/2 and was wondering when we should start training. My son is 30 and about the only think I can remember is that he was 3 years old before he was trained, but I can't remember how old he was when I started or even how I went about doing it.

I will be interested in reading what others have to say that have trained their child in more recent years.

[danened]

With my first, I made the mistake of taking the ownership from him. We were at a restaurant and I had a change of clothes for the "just in case" accident. I could tell by the dance he was doing that he had to go badly but was refusing... I carried him to the bathroom and placed him on the toilet (he was like a wet noodle). Well... he went and I was spared having to change him, but after that he insisted on wearing diapers again. I realized what I had done and that the regression was my fault...and put him back in diapers. After about a week he asked about using the potty again and all went well from there. The second one I was much less anxious about...the potty was there for him to sit on (which he did fully clothed- he sat across from me when I was going :o -- mom's never get to have bathroom privacy!) He had his brother and dad as examples and pretty much took charge himself at his own pace. When we interfered he pushed back. We learned that we would encourage success (M&M's were a big incentive for him) but we would let him be in charge... it was so much less stressful for everyone involved. He also liked to aim at cheerio targets in the toilet :p

Best wishes--

[juliebove]

My daughter was not fully trained until just before her 4th birthday. I had started her out at about 18 months but made the mistake of using a little, flimsy potty that tipped over when she sat on it. After that she refused to use any little potty. I had bought a sturdier one but she didn't trust it nor did she trust the little insert I bought for the reguar toilet. So we started trying to use the regular toilet. I felt like we were making some progress, but then her dad had to have an operation.

She doesn't take change well and began regressing while he was in the hosptial and laid up in bed for a few weeks. She flat out refused to even try to use the toilet at all. She also started doing some very bad behavior. By this point she was wearing Pullups because she had gotten too big for any of the disposable diapers. She learned how to take them off and she would then urinate in the corner, on the couch, or various other spots. Our couch was totally destroyed because she did this so many times. These were not accidents. She would sort of bend her knees and go, all the while calling attention to the fact that she was doing it.

At this point I just stopped with the potty training all together. I figured if I didn't mention it, she might finally decide on her own to go. My nephew was trained at about age 3 and it was his decision. He had not wanted to use the toilet, but he went to daycare. One of the little girls there told him that his pullups were "gross", so he came home and announced that he was through with them and he used the toilet ever since. No accidents. I was hoping for something similar with her. She didn't go to daycare but she did have friends who were already potty trained.

Time went by and I had to switch to Overnights because the Pullups were not big enough. This got very expensive and I wanted it to stop. So I bought her some plastic pants and training pants. It was hard to find any this size. I thought perhaps if she could feel the wetness (and she couldn't with disposables), she might dislike it and use the toilet. No dice! She hated these things and refused to wear them. Demanded to have panties. I agreed to buy them for her but only if she would use the toilet.

At first she had a lot of accidents. She seemed to never know when she had to go. And if I asked her to go try, she would refuse and then wait and wait until it was too late. She was having accidents all over the house. I was beginning to panic then because we were moving from the west coast to the east coast. We'd made this move before and I didn't think I could handle 8-10 days of accidents on the road. But then by some miracle, she stopped having the accidents. For a while.

We moved and she entered Pre-K. She was constantly sick and at one point had what I thought was a UTI. The Dr. needed a urine sample to know for sure. But she refused to give him one. She refused for 3 days to use the toilet at all! She had a fever and was sleeping a lot, so she wasn't really eating. But dehydration was a concern. She refused to drink anything either. She is very bright and she knew that drinking would lead to using the toilet. So she wasn't going to do it!

As she slept, I'd put drops of water or juice in her mouth. I figured sooner or later it would have to come out the other end. But she was stubborn! Then on the third day, she sneaked in and used the toilet. I didn't get the sample. This was on a Friday morning and I knew the Drs. office wasn't open the next day. I had to get the urine sample in there before 5:00. I finally managed to get one just minutes before then and luckily the Drs. office was nearby. Indeed, she did have a UTI.

She began having accidents at home in Kindergarten. She refused to use the bathroom at school. At first she tried to tell me that she didn't know where it was. Turns out it was right by her desk. They had one right in the room! Then she tried to tell me she wasn't allowed to use it. I had spoken to the teacher several times about this. Teacher told me she was allowed to get up any time she needed to and not ask permission. But this was simply something she would not do on her own. I remember when I was in Kindergarten, the teacher had us all go halfway through the day whether we needed to or not. They didn't do that at her school nor would they remind her to go. So she'd get off the bus, make the mad dash for home and pee mere feet before she reached the toilet.

Fast forward to moving from NY to WA. Finally hooked up with a Naturopath who diagnosed 7 different food allergies. The more I read about food allergies, the more I realized that these were at the root of her problems. Her allergies were such that she had constant stomach pains. But since she had been this way from birth, she didn't take note of the pain unless it got really intense. Like when she had her appendix out before her third birthday. Because of all the pain in this area, the child can not tell when they need to use the toilet. The normal sensations of needing to go get swallowed up by all the pain. She also couldn't seem to know when she was hungry and as a result she thought she was constantly hungry.

Now she is 7. She hasn't had a single accident since I changed her diet and stopped feeding her the foods she was allergic to. She does sometimes forget to go and will make the mad dash in there. But I think this is common for most kids.

[Rawkinlocs]

Thank you for the responses and personal experiences!!

Those were some very encouraging and inspiring stories :D

I shall follow my own gut and allow it to happen when it happens! Thanks again all!

[Raene]

A week after my daughter's 2nd bday she started voluntarily using the potty. Not for anything more than pee, but she hasn't gone back to diapers for pee so far and it's been a month. I think they are just motivated when they're ready? She spent all last summer naked in the house and she'd say "diaper" whenever she was ready to go, so she's always known, just not been motivated to use the potty til now. I'm usually against bribing, but the first time I got her to actually pee on the potty I did tell her she could have some carob chips. It worked really well, but I'd never have said that unless I knew she was ready. Good luck!

[Purl]

Okay. This is my area of expertise. :cool: LOL! Here's our potty story.

When the twins were 22 months my mom pressurred me to start potty training them before their sibling arrived. It was AWFUL!!! She would praise them for success, but shame them for accidents.:( I knew they weren't ready. This went on for 9 months. The back lash was TERRIBLE. They didn't potty train til they were 3 1/2-almost 2 years since we started!

With my 3rd-I told my mom to stay out of it!!! :mad: :) I let him decided COMPLETELY. I actually didn't know it, but he had begun to train himself. I just set up the potty and within a few days he was totally trained.

Now baby #4 is almost 2.5. She has a little interest, but not alot. I'm not going to pressure her. I figure that this summer when she doesn't need to wear so much clothing, etc. she will train herself when she's ready. My neighbor's dd is almost 3 and she's been trying for months, and just now her dd can stay dry of she stays naked around the house, but still wears diapers when they go out.

HTH

[kitchenfairy]

My first son trained just at age 3. Never heard from him since. He's now 10.
So five years later I had a second son...so far everything is total opposite.
Second son was handful since birth. Around age three we worked on #2 at toilet. Had previously no problem peeing at toilet because big brother and daddy do it. By age 3 1/2 he would have "skids" in pants and I realized he wasn't pottying often. This turned into a 1 1/2 year ordeal called encopresis.
This is when newer potty leaks around and older clog in their colon.
He would clog up for 2 weeks at a time. This child is my mainly vegetarian but boy does he like white flour and sugar...pancakes,bread,donuts...
For 6 mos I didn't understand what was happening and that his bowel was stretching. He would sit on toilet for long time and nothing. I feel he had a couple "bad and hurtful" potties so then he started holding it. He is my sensory child and at almost 6 still doesn't like stange bathrooms. At one point we were at the hospital with xrays at 4 1/2 weekls clogged with finally gave way at 6 weeks. We had a wknd of enemas and disimpaction with gloved finger. By three days he gave way. It was a process of mineral oil and this miralax from Dr. to keep him runny while his body grew and tightend. Of coulse diet has been huge factor. He must eat wet, hard crunchy veg fruits. I don't give him med or oil. He's still not a great eliminator at 2 plus days apart sometimes. But he does on his own with that. This was such a hard mothering experience. The potty Dr said this is much more common than we know at that they deal with older grade school kids all the time.
There is far more detail that I would happily talk to any parent about if needed. I've got the children't book in my head titled "Did You Poop Today"...

I know that this is not your situation. I just wanted to share in case anyone is experiencing what I went through. I wish the best for your little one.

[Purl]

Thank you for sharing that!! I have a friend going thru this right now with her 7 yo ds...could I pass your email on to her? (FWIW-She's not raw, not even veg-big time SAD eaters)

[Punky]

Both my boys were well over 3 years when fully potty trained.
One was 3 1/2 and another 3 years 9 months I think. I can't remember exactly
but well into the 3rd year.
I made the mistake of being pushy with my 1st son about it. He resisted
and we had many battle of the wills. I used treats as insentives with no avail.
When I let go of all that and let him be, he potty trained himself within a few days, with no diapers at night and all that. I let my youngest self direct when he was ready and when he did potty train it was over night as well.
No relapses. I truely believe in not putting an age cap on it and going with
the child's own interest and readiness. I think, yes, have a potty out and introduce it, discuss it, show them how to use it. But never be pushy with it or insist. Make the potty a happy spot for when "they" want to use it.
I had a lot of support doing it this
way from my kids pre-school too; they truely believe in not pushing a child into potty training. They even had a few over 4's in the school that hadn't finished potty training yet (very few, but one or two). Now not every preschool is that supportive though; many insist on having them trained by age 3 to have them enrolled. And for what it's worth my preschool has won awards for their early childhood programs.

[Rawkinlocs]

Thank you ladies! I really do appreciate your responses and suggestions!

You're the best! :D

[kitchenfairy]

yes Purl
I'd be happy to talk with your friend.
The book title is just a joke in my head. But I really can picture the cartoon animal looking you square in the eye and asking. :o

[Webby]

I'm glad this subject has come up.

I'm going through the same thing with my soon-to-be-two year old.

He emphatically, refuses to use a potty. I even purchased a toilet insert for him, but he still will not work with me.

My mother says that boys, particulary if they are the eldest, can sometimes be more stubborn than girls and believes that boys can take a little longer to cooperate.

I've decided to let up on my son a little and try to take his hints. I guess it's different for each child.

[Purl]

Oh I should mention this too...my 3 boys wore diapers at night til they were: 7.5 (ds #1), 5.5 (ds#2) and 5 (ds#3). I *heard* that night time wetting stops once the dc starts secreating a certain hormone. My ped said that it can take until 10 years old in some uncommon but not unheard of cases. Also-my own exp with family and friends: If the dc has been thru something traumatic (surgery, illness, preamturity, etc.), even at infancy, they seem to potty train later. I don't understand the connection-but *every* child that I personally know has potty trained later (3-5 years old), and worn nightime diapers til much later (5-8). Just my exp, tho.

[sunday]

Both my boys started using the toilet at two and were fully "toilet trained" (bizarre term) by 2 1/4. I did not actively toilet train either of them and have been so lucky to escape with no dramas or unpleasantness in this area (Thank God!) Both still wet the bed (age 2 1/2 and 5 1/2)

I think the reason most people hope to toilet train around two is to avoid it becoming a battle of wills or a game with a 2 1/2 - 4 year old. Under two they are still in parent pleasing mode and it is a bit of a window of opportunity.

[BDraw]

Hey, I have a seven year old that still isn't potty trained. Now before you get all weired on me, I must tell you that he is Down's Syndrome. I couldn't believe when he was 6 months old, we visited a friend with a 8 year old Down's daughter who was being potty trained that summer. I was shocked!!! I just knew that my child would be trained before that age! Now I laugh at me, cause we are in the same boat.

And yes, I am so tired of the smell, the mess, and the cost. But it will happen when he is ready. I just hope it is soon!

So......count your blessings! Though I must close with this last comment, my little guy is a true blessing, in ways I never imagined -- he is pure joy! Just wish he could talk and go potty!

[Purl]

Special children make the smallest accomplishments feel like true triumphs! I can recall when my oldest first peddled a bike. I asked him to do it over and over. For about 3 days I would burst into tears everytime he got on that bike. (2 weeks after his birth the doctors had thought he would be paralyzed or need his legs amputated.) I still tear up thinking about that magical day when he got on his bike. I'm such a cry-baby ninny! LOL!! :p

Just wait-he will do it-and then it will seem light years behind you. :)

[sweetgoddess]

You are all BEAUTIFUL mommies!!

[Webby]

Both my boys started using the toilet at two and were fully "toilet trained" (bizarre term) by 2 1/4. I did not actively toilet train either of them and have been so lucky to escape with no dramas or unpleasantness in this area (Thank God!) Both still wet the bed (age 2 1/2 and 5 1/2)

I think the reason most people hope to toilet train around two is to avoid it becoming a battle of wills or a game with a 2 1/2 - 4 year old. Under two they are still in parent pleasing mode and it is a bit of a window of opportunity.
I think I just felt that window shut down on my fingers...need a splint here lol

[Webby]

Special children make the smallest accomplishments feel like true triumphs! I can recall when my oldest first peddled a bike. I asked him to do it over and over. For about 3 days I would burst into tears everytime he got on that bike. (2 weeks after his birth the doctors had thought he would be paralyzed or need his legs amputated.) I still tear up thinking about that magical day when he got on his bike. I'm such a cry-baby ninny! LOL!! :p

Just wait-he will do it-and then it will seem light years behind you. :)
Aww Purl...you have me tearing up with you *sniff sniff*

[ljcoolj]

With my first son, who is now 10, he was well over 3 before he was trained. I now have a 2 1/2 yr. old and I swore I'd get him trained earlier. So, I started training prior to his 2nd birthday but he didn't want to have ANYTHING to do with it. So, I let it go. Now, at 2 1/2 he goes on the potty here and there, not all the time, but he's getting the hang of it. He'll do it on his own and I don't really care when that happens..it will happen. I felt so much pressure to potty train him early because all my sister kept saying 'was both of my kids were potty trained by the time they were 2'. Well, good for them. I finally told her to put a sock in it and if its so important to her then she can take him for a week and train him. She hasn't said anything since...ha ha ha!! I don't see what the big deal is, they all eventually train on their own.

[Conscious Midwife]

My oldest girls were trained before 2.5 yrs of age.

My oldest son trained before 2 but had night time accidents on occassion

My toddlers now 2.5 and 3.5 both wear pullups to bed, sometimes they are dry, sometimes they are not. My 3.5 daughter goes well most days, but has occassional accidents, I think we are on the go to much and we are both germaphobes. My 2.5 son thinks daytime toilet use is a game, he plays when he wants too.

I'm occassionally embarassed by the delay, but I don't pressure them. Childhood is stressful enough especially considering they will have to be in car seats for another 5 years!

[rawpriestess]

another thing to look back to nature for guidance.


I was lucky, my son was in nursery school, I guess you call it day care now, and his teacher was a wonderful French woman who dearly loved kids, so she potty trained him, it was easy with a bunch of them all going at the same time, all lined up in their potty seats, and all being congratulated at the same time, etc.

So, I didn't do anything. LOL

but I do think it is important to look at the natural aspects of potty training.

first, in the ancient world, of whom humans are still a part, you wouldn't be wearing clothes, or garments, it would be warm and you'd be outside most of the day, no worries, just squat and go where ever you are, especially as kids, but of course now, we have clothes and potty chairs, that I think look kinda scary the toilet, again kind of scary, things dissapear in there, and it is big, cold, white and it it'w own separate room YIKES!!

where in the ancient natural world, you would be right beside freinds and family, (this would be comforting to a child, not so to us more modest adults -- which again is a social custom, not necessarily natural) and they would just go where ever they were.

I think natural is best, and easiest, so don't worry if your little one wants to be by you, and doesn't like that big white scary toilet, allow them to take there time to do what they do.

I wet the bed until I was about 8 or 9, my mom never said a thing to me a bout it, I didn't know other kids didn't, it was just something that I did.

and I wasn't developementally disabled or anything.

I was just afraid to get up at night, LONG STORY, and I was probably safer NOT getting up, but we'll go into that later.

allow the kids to make their own judgements, and they'll feel more empowered, especially when it is their own body.

now if it embarasses him, or upsets him, then that is another story

Rawkie, you are a great mom, your little one is such a gem. I just love him, he's so beautiful and sweet.

[Rawkinlocs]

Thank you RP, Lifeagift and everyone who had responded before when this thread was "fresh"!

Since this thread came back up I thought I'd give an update...MY LITTLE GUY IS GOING TOILET!!! YAAAAY!

We left him alone for quite a while and then one day my oldest daughter simply started telling him that if he'd wear his undies (I've always bought the training undies with the plastic undies that go on top), she'd take him outside. So, he thought for a moment and then said, "Okay!"

Then, she started coaxing him to use the potty. We then started keeping him in his undies all day and putting diaper on him only at night just in case. He will NOT go in his undies (unlike before when we tried that) and we've even had success with him wearing them all night with no accidents!

So, my baby boy is officially using the toilet now...I have one of those potty chairs that the seat can come off and fit right onto the big toilet so we started doing that. Now, whenever he has to go, he informs us and we take him and help him on. I think waiting until he was a little older was good for him and I'm glad we did...he's 3 1/2, will be 4 in December.

Wow...just noticed it was 5 months ago when I started this thread :) So it hasn't been too long ago!

[Conscious Midwife]

Congrats

What are you going to do with all that extra loot now that you don't have to buy diapers? :D

[Rawkinlocs]

Congrats

What are you going to do with all that extra loot now that you don't have to buy diapers? :D

Girrrl...TELL me about it! LOL! I'm just glad to be liberated from buying those things!

[SijaeintheRaw]

I made some effort to potty train my first son when he was 2.5 but he just wasn't ready so I let it drop and waited. On his third birthday we did a very structured few days where I set the timer for every 20 minutes and took him potty. After a few days I started phasing out the timer and encouraging him to go potty when he needed to. He was reliable at home within a couple weeks and reliable away from home soon after.

I tried to potty train my second son many times and he just was never ready. He would use the potty but would have frequent accidents. Poopy accidents went by the wayside first but he continued to have relatively frequent pee accidents even at school until 1st grade and even in 4th grade last year probably wet his pants 4-5 times. He just waits and waits and doesn't want to stop what he's doing to use the bathroom.

My third child was a girl and when she was about 18 months old and I hadn't even though about introducing the potty, she wanted to wear some overalls with no diaper. She was standing there and I knew by body language she needed to pee so I grabbed her up and we ran to the potty. We got there mostly in time and she loved the potty so much she never looked back. She was reliable about bm's and pee in the potty from 18 months to 2 years. Then she started going for play-dates at her great-grandmothers and regressed with pee accidents for a little while till she got comfortable using the potty there. After that she was fine although I had to carry her potty seat around with us for a while to put on the potties since she was afraid of the big seats.

As for bed wetting there are genetic factors and also the behavioral set that is typically called ADD or ADHD is associated with bedwetting too (although that can be considered genetic too). My father and mother both were late bedwetters and so was I. My father and I both wet our beds till we were 13. It was a big source of shame for me growing up. Both my boys wet their beds still at ages 10 and 11 and my daughter has been reliably dry at night since she was 2. In my experience it is something you just have to grow out of. The best thing you can do for a child that is having trouble either potty training or staying dry at night is to give them acceptance and not shame them ever.

Laura

[greeninlosangeles]

My son is almost three and we are working on it now. So this thread is useful for us too! So far I am just trying to catch it - he doesn't tell me before the fact.

[Live Free]

The first time she used the toilet was when she was about 18 months old. I had always changed her diapers in the bathroom since she was a baby. It just made sense to me.

I had bought her a toddler toilet that sang music when she flushed it. So she would have to use the toilet before it would make the noise. I am not sure how instrumental it was in her process to potty train.

She knows how to use the toilet, but I still have to buy diapers for her to use when she sleeps. She is still needing a cup to suck on when she goes to sleep. I am going to try working on breaking her of that. But I know this will take some time.

She will be 3 at the end of August. I would say she is potty trained, because she knows how to use the bathroom. She can even wash her hands by herself.

I have a little step stool for her to use, to help her get on the toilet by herself. She only uses the toddler toilet if the big toilet is being used.

However, the past few days she has been having accidents. So I put the diapers back on her. I had to change her outfits three times yesterday. We go back and forth with the underwear and the diapers. She sometimes gets ingrossed in something and doesnt want to take the time to use the bathroom.

I am also assuming that she is having a lot of stress over the past few months. My husband and I have been working in different states. So we havent seen each other.